KVR Audio

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:12 pm

Paulie,

The biggest problem with the audigy is that so many people have had so many problems with creative cards. This means that those who would usually help you with a soundcard problem tend to avert their eyes. However they probably outsell all the other brands put together so some people must be happy with them.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:14 pm

Don't know anything about possible duplex restrictions... might be a matter of USB per se though. But then, do you really need 24/96 for a mobile setup?

As far as the Audigy goes: So far Creative's converters and drivers haven't been that great. Let's not forget it's still basically a consumer card.
Seriously (and I've learned that the hard way by myself), when it comes to audio hardware, there's some things that are cheaper, there's some things apparently offering more value for the buck and so on... all OK with me - BUT (!!!), do yourself a favour and DON'T buy some consumer-oriented stuff!

What you want (at least it seems so to me) is some proper audio interface, featuring proper drivers and converters. So, do it the right way and buy JUST that. You won't need any additional features that may come with the Audigy. You also may not want to buy something from some sort of semi-amateurish company (Terratec that is - even if I have to admit that their latest products weren't as bad as usual).
Just save a few bucks more (and in that case it's really just a few) and get something serious.

Not sure if USB is thr best way to go in case you want 24/96, but you could also have a look at the M-Audio firewire models (while M-Audio could be replaced with any serious company doing similar things).
Just don't buy *anything* because you've got not enough money right now... after all it's really not a fortune that you'll have to pay in order to get something serious.

Paulie Phonick · Post by **Paulie Phonick** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:47 pm

Yes, you're right - it's better to keep out of the consumer world. The quality of top-shelf consumer products doesn't normally get as high as the quality of the basic products for the pro market.

As far as 24/96 is concerned, well, I don't think I'd use it often (unless it provided significantly better results), but a limitation that wouldn't allow full duplex operation when recording in 24/96 mode would make it completely useless, so I'd like to know about it before I buy the interface.

Also, as it is important for me to at least be able to monitor the line in (or a pair of inputs) and the mic in (or just another input) at the same time - blocking one pair of inputs by the other one would disqualify the device, so I also need to know is such an issue exists before buying.

Therefore - the question is still open. Can any Audiophile USB user comment on that?

Sidhu · Post by **Sidhu** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:12 pm

Looked at the new E-MU lineup lately? Lots of good stuff at more affordable prices. Remember, in general, you get what you pay for. If you go cheap, you get cheap.

Devon

Devon, do you have any experience with the E-mu cards ? as compared to say the m-audio's ? I had my eye on one.. they seem to offer a lot more for less... and the specks seem nice too.. decent ADDA's too is suppose... (i've worked on an HD192 Digital.. so have no clue as to how the ADDA's of the 192 sound.

strummer525 · Post by **strummer525** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:33 pm

I've heard the indigo stuff - it's excellent sounding and high quality - if you can use 1/8" jacks. It's nice and compact.

Paulie Phonick · Post by **Paulie Phonick** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:03 pm

Indigo looks very nice indeed, but it's too expensive since I'd have to go for layla laptop + layla 24 to cover my in/out needs...

Anyhow - the main questions are still those about limitations of the USB audio interfaces, M-Audio Audiophile USB and Terratec Phase 26 USB in particular:

1. Can they operate in full duplex (play back sound that is) when recording in 24/96?

2. Is there only one pair of inputs available at one time (M-Audio Audiophile)?

and additionally:

3. Do any of the above mentioned interfaces support zero latency monitoring?

Audiophile USB/Phase 26 users - I looking forward to your feedback

grillo · Post by **grillo** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:30 pm

If you can still find it around, you could try the m-audio quattro. I've seen blowout deals on these for as low as 139 on audiomidi. It's got 4ins and 4outs on usb, midi in and out, direct monitoring and 24 / 96. though if you go as high as 24 96 you just get either a couple of ins *Or* a couple of outs, but maybe you can direct monitor the incoming signal, still it's not really a true full duplex in the sense that you cannot hear output from the laptop at all while recording. But i guess that with usb 1 it's just bandwidth and you won't find anything like that. For the record i heard people trashing maudio quattros all around the net since their drivers are unreliable, but maybe the problem was fixed, better give a look around the net.

Otherwise you can go for a firewire unit like the m audio 410 or the esi quatafire and they should all do the trick easily.

Paulie Phonick · Post by **Paulie Phonick** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:36 pm

Audiomidi really has nice offers! M-Audio 410 FireWire for $399 with a free Sennheiser microphone?! Even adding the shipping costs to Germany ($56) this is an awesome deal. Somehow I started to feel like spending way too much money

What are the addtional costs (like customs or VAT) when ordering audio equipment from USA? Are the duties high enough to make it pointless?

bluelife · Post by **bluelife** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:41 pm

Paulie Phonick wrote:Audiomidi really has nice offers! M-Audio 410 FireWire for $399 with a free Sennheiser microphone?! Even adding the shipping costs to Germany ($56) this is an awesome deal. Somehow I started to feel like spending way too much money

What are the addtional costs (like customs or VAT) when ordering audio equipment from USA? Are the duties high enough to make it pointless?

Well, I've heard stories where UPS turns up here and wants the import tax... it's best to get it sent as a present, then you don't have to pay the tax.

Check thomann.de, maybe they have deals on this.

blue

bluelife · Post by **bluelife** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:43 pm

There you go

http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/artikel-166610.html

You wanted it in german I thought:)

And here is a whole bunch of goodies for you:

http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/aspecial157.html

Nice price, nice thing, will do the job, 266 €

blue

Paulie Phonick · Post by **Paulie Phonick** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:46 pm

In thomann.de the M-Audio Firewire 410 costs 430 Euros, which is more or less $530! Not to mention the microphone, which I could use as well. The question becomes important: how high are the duties/VAT/whatever additional costs when ordering audio equipment from USA to Germany? (Unfortunately, I don't have anybody that could send it to me as a present...)

Edit: Thanks Bluelife, but the Audiophile Firewire only has one pair of analog inputs, which is to little for me - I need two pairs. Audiophile USB has more inputs, but I have heard USB (1.0) interfaces are somewhat limited, so I guess I'll try to get a Firewire interface.

bluelife · Post by **bluelife** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:48 pm

//END OF HELP
// USER ON OWN.

blue

grillo · Post by **grillo** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:16 pm

Well, you need to pay Vat or the like of it in your country on the price, plus the expedition, plus customs, which in my country is another 6% of the whole (price of the goodies + vat + expedition costs) added.

Usually big online shops won't send stuff 'as present' (so not to pay additional taxes on it) since it's considered felony, in the us they have really strict policies about it and apparently they enforce them pretty well too. On the other hand it also depends on the chosen method for shipping, ups always passes thru customs whereas the usps (the american national postal service) depending on the connections it has in the various countries it may happen that doesnt get billed the extra custom tax, but personally i never had this luck.

On top of i'll just add that you need to get an additional power supply unit in your country since they're on 110 i guess.

But sometimes, even adding all this up, the total is still cheaper than what it'd cost to buy it in the shop in your town, especially on american brands (like i believe m audio is) and that's quite something.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:31 pm

Yes, USB 1.1 is VERY limited. You can achieve a maximum of 8 16-bit audio tracks if you're lucky. You'd need USB 2 for more bandwidth. Still, I'd look at FireWire if your laptop has the ports. Still, if you're thinking you're going to get out 'cheap' and get something good, it's not going to happen, but reading through, I think you're catching that now.

Seriously, look at FireWire, but that's not going to be "cheap" either.

Devon

Paulie Phonick · Post by **Paulie Phonick** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:00 pm

@grillo:

From what you've written, I guess going for the audiomidi Firewire 410 deal, I would have to pay:

$399 (interface) + $56 (shipping) + 16% German VAT + 6% customs = around $560 = around 455 euros

That would mean I get a Sennheiser microphone for 10 euros, hmm... still worth a try, I guess.

Just to compare customs rates - do you live within the EU? (I guess the rates are the same across the EU)

@devonb:

Yes, having read some about the limitations of those USB boxes, I find myself thinking more about a FireWire interface. There's one question about the though - do FireWire interfaces require 6-pin connectors? I mean is it just a matter of an external power supply or do the interfaces simply not work on a 4-pin connector. I'm asking because I don't think I'd ever seen a PC laptop with a 6-pin FireWire connector...

Simple, but good sounding audio interface for a laptop?