Steinberg Cubase Pro 8

[Compyfox]

Counter question from somebody that is using Cubase for over 20 years now.

When... was it not "pro"?

[valerian_777]

Did this upgrade solved the several issues you had Compyfox?

[noiseboyuk]

Counter question from somebody that is using Cubase for over 20 years now.

When... was it not "pro"?

My take on that is that they've specifically decided to take on Pro Tools with this update, or more specifically Pro Tools HD - stuff like the VCAs, but the whole look and feel is now more serious. If you're making music (not Post), PT HD really has almost nothing now over Cubase. You have to buy hardware with PTHD now, starting at $5k, while to keep the license able to be updated, pay $600pa for the support contract. Cubase Pro 8 is literally a tenth of the cost to buy and maintain, has comparable audio features (in fact less no limits on record tracks etc) and vastly superior midi features from a very well established developer.

And yet the higher end studios and producers still almost uniformly use PT. So the marketing name change is, I think, giving a nod to those customers who might notice and take a 2nd look. Personally I think it will work, too - Avid customers are extremely unhappy these days. Folks aren't going to change overnight, but the up and coming producers and musicians are far more likely to embrace Cubase Pro than Pro Tools.

[yevster]

The problem is, to be "pro", you have to be reliable. Once you put some serious load on Sonar and Studio One, they'll puke all over themselves. Cubase has been remarkably resilient in comparison, in my experience, but some of the bugs people have reported in v8 give me pause.

[Compyfox]

Did this upgrade solved the several issues you had Compyfox?

I think I mentioned several times up until this point, that I won't upgrade due to several reasons (reported bugs mainly, C8 still looking "incomplete" like C7 did, lack of funds, lack of demo, etc).

I hope that Germany will a couple of magazines with Cubase LE8 bundled in the next weeks (think: January), so that I can take a closer look prior(!) to spending funds and not being happy in return. But I think I won't jump on C8 until it's issues are fully fleshed out (and there seem to be plenty). Not to mention that I'm still kind of ticked off by what happened to me with C7.0 (also C7.5).

Cubase 8 is still Cubase 7.75 beta to me.

So I do not only have to speak with my wallet (due to lack of funds), I will(!) speak with my wallet due to disagreeing with the current route. I mean, ASIO Guard v2? Wow... without a couple of us being a pricks on that topic, I think that wouldn't have happened. Though I am surprised it even happened that soon.

YMMV.

My take on that is that they've specifically decided to take on Pro Tools with this update, or more specifically Pro Tools HD - stuff like the VCAs, but the whole look and feel is now more serious. If you're making music (not Post), PT HD really has almost nothing now over Cubase. You have to buy hardware with PTHD now, starting at $5k, while to keep the license able to be updated, pay $600pa for the support contract. Cubase Pro 8 is literally a tenth of the cost to buy and maintain, has comparable audio features (in fact less no limits on record tracks etc) and vastly superior midi features from a very well established developer.

Sorry, but I kind of have to disagree here. PT grew A LOT since PT8, especially in he MIDI section - which it was always lacking (and one of the biggest FR's from users, that grew tired of Syncing Logic with PT). That it somewhat comes to an end of the line, is to absolutely no surprise. PT was never concepted to be a MIDI host - it was a very expensive digital tape machine.

Then again, you don't have to buy expensive hardware for PT HD - the hardware limitation was lifted with PT9 or PT10 IIRC? You only have to invest in expensive hardware, if you want suitable control surfaces. Else, at least IMO, PT is just another host at this point.

Not touching the pricing politics for either companies. Steinberg adapted the AVID model. And AVID was way beyond he roof pretty much constantly and even asked for funds for .1 upgrades every year. A trend I do not support anymore (just look at Magix and how well received their host is still!).


Though yes, I have to agree that Cubase heavily(!) copied from PT. Especially if we look at the new Mixer Console and the View Modes. But it's still falling short on the features of the console it was... er... "inspired on". And by that I don't necessarily mean "horizontal bypass" (which would be a nice add-on), but other limitations like free routing and unlimited insert slots.

Dare I even say it, but Cockos is one of the only companies that really pulled that off. And heck, there is even a PT Conversion mod for Reaper!

And yet the higher end studios and producers still almost uniformly use PT. So the marketing name change is, I think, giving a nod to those customers who might notice and take a 2nd look. Personally I think it will work, too - Avid customers are extremely unhappy these days. Folks aren't going to change overnight, but the up and coming producers and musicians are far more likely to embrace Cubase Pro than Pro Tools.

This is nothing new (the "change overnight"), something i heard for ProTools, Logic and Cubase. In the end, these three are still the big players - each at different... fair... prices.


PT is mainly used in large scale studios and declared a "defacto standard" due to the fact that it was one of the first hosts that focused on HDD recording, and it's fast paced workflow. Cubase and a short while later also Logic, were mainly focusing on MIDI around that time. Of course, both got an audio engine, and HDD space got affordable, technology advanced, yadda yadda.

Then there is the "Apple game" - Apple spent a lot of money a decade ago to push the audio market over to Macintosh. Something that really didn't swing with me. The endresult is, that studios jumped on Macs like a wildfire (not only due to being able to jump over to video editing tools and graphic tools more easily - as they were more available on Mac than PC). Even Steinberg wanted to go full Mac at some point (I thing during the "Pinnacle" times) - but thankfully, users rebelled and we still have it on PC. But we lost Logic in return (RIP Logic 5).


So this is a two edged blade really.

Steinberg tries to go the current "naming route" as other host companies do. Suite, Pro, Advanced, you name it. But it doesn't really make it "more professional". Cubase was professional even years before that - if we overlook certain hickups in the last years. And actually, Cubase had a similar name tagging as well.

This was Cubasis, Cubase Score and Cubase VST
Then it was LE/Elements, SL and SX
We went to LE/AI -> Elements -> Artist -> unnamed (aka FULL) as soon as the SX tag was dropped with C4
Now we're at LE/AI (mag ware and hardware bundled) -> Elements (slightly more unlocked LE/AI) -> Artist -> Pro / Full

People were calling the "full version" Pro in stores and on web boards anyway. So they only adapted the name IMO. And I think it's more of a nod towards other host developers (like Presonus StudioOne Free -> Artist which is considered the "Elements" version -> Producer (the mid-field player) -> Professional) or even FLStudio (which also grew EXPONENTIALLY since it's jump to fame early 2000s.


It is just a name, not a poster child.

The problem is, to be "pro", you have to be reliable. Once you put some serious load on Sonar and Studio One, they'll puke all over themselves. Cubase has been remarkably resilient in comparison, in my experience, but some of the bugs people have reported in v8 give me pause.

This however, is something I have to agree on.
New name or not.

[noiseboyuk]

Sorry, but I kind of have to disagree here. PT grew A LOT since PT8, especially in he MIDI section - which it was always lacking (and one of the biggest FR's from users, that grew tired of Syncing Logic with PT). That it somewhat comes to an end of the line, is to absolutely no surprise. PT was never concepted to be a MIDI host - it was a very expensive digital tape machine.

Then again, you don't have to buy expensive hardware for PT HD - the hardware limitation was lifted with PT9 or PT10 IIRC? You only have to invest in expensive hardware, if you want suitable control surfaces. Else, at least IMO, PT is just another host at this point.

Not touching the pricing politics for either companies. Steinberg adapted the AVID model. And AVID was way beyond he roof pretty much constantly and even asked for funds for .1 upgrades every year. A trend I do not support anymore (just look at Magix and how well received their host is still!).


Though yes, I have to agree that Cubase heavily(!) copied from PT. Especially if we look at the new Mixer Console and the View Modes. But it's still falling short on the features of the console it was... er... "inspired on". And by that I don't necessarily mean "horizontal bypass" (which would be a nice add-on), but other limitations like free routing and unlimited insert slots.

Although the hardware restriction was lifted in PT9, for HD they only now sell with hardware (try to find someone selling new HD software-only). Go figure. So new PTHD starts at $5k, and this is new. You could get PT10 +CPTK for under half that - PT10HD and PT10 CPTK have identical feature sets.

PT's midi is fine enough, but Cubase has far more sophisticated tools, that's pretty widely accepted. Expression maps, CC control over EuCon etc. And for audio, PT is still crippled for recording simultaneous channels, unless you buy enough HDX cards.

I disagree that C8's console is inspired by PT specifically. And it has its own plusses - a proper input stage for each channel, good visibility for send levels, clear visibility for multiple sends (in PT you have to hover over to see the extra destinations), even if you never touch their built in strip with gates, dynamics, eq etc. While it doesn't have the same completely free routing, there's very little you can't now accomplish with the direct outs, and it's one less stage of faff. Pretty much the only feature in PT I'd miss for music work is track-specific session import - it's one extra step in Cubase to save what you need first.

Then there's track naming. Jeepers PT is two decades behind with total inflexibility when it comes to working on narrow tracks. For that reason alone I wouldn't want to use PT for serious composition - when you have 600 midi tracks all narrow, 5 characters just isn't going to cut it.

But the point really is that in the past PT HD users could point to VCAs, multiple routing etc as evidence that PT is a more serious platform. No longer. HD now has nothing significant on Cpro8, and its 10x the cost both of ownership and upgrades. And of course Cubase isn't alone, other good options too. PT has already lost the bedroom market, the midrange set is fast eroding. In time (and it will take time) the dominance in the pro market will surely follow. Post is a tougher nut to crack, but even there I think there will be inroads.

[stikygum]

I'm finding Cubase 8 is unstable on OSX 10.8.5 if I try to scan for plugins that Cubase 8 didn't pick up the first time around, especially if they are eLicenser type plugins. Does Cubase 8 only recognize a certain type of VST? I just bought Nora 2, which is an arpeggio plugin, and it won't find it. Then again, like I said Cubase 8 just crashes if I try to scan for VST Instruments plugins. Is there any way to scan for plugins besides the circular recycle type button (under the Devices -> VST Instruments page)?

[ChamomileShark]

Sometimes plugins go to odd locations - you have checked that it is scanning the correct folders?

I'm on Windows but it's picking up all my e-licenser stuff, Korg Digital leagacy and the PPG 3V

[stikygum]

Yeah, I checked that it's scanning the correct folders. Maybe I should delete the file paths and re-add the same paths and see if that helps. I'm having to do this in 32 bit mode as 64 bit mode crashes. But I'm ok with that if I could get everything to work. I did have to manually place some of my plugins in the correct VST folder recently, but that's besides what's happening. I don't understand if I just simply scan the VST folder, why Cubase crashes. Is the only way to scan folders to go into Devices -> VST Instruments and press the scan (recycle looking) button?

[topaz]

It's not supported in mountain lion.

I'm finding Cubase 8 is unstable on OSX 10.8.5 if I try to scan for plugins that Cubase 8 didn't pick up the first time around, especially if they are eLicenser type plugins. Does Cubase 8 only recognize a certain type of VST? I just bought Nora 2, which is an arpeggio plugin, and it won't find it. Then again, like I said Cubase 8 just crashes if I try to scan for VST Instruments plugins. Is there any way to scan for plugins besides the circular recycle type button (under the Devices -> VST Instruments page)?

[stikygum]

It's weird that it crashes on my 10.8.5 system, but not other people's. I know it's not supported by Mountain Lion. I may have to upgrade to 10.9 Mavericks, but I just want to confirm the correct procedures for scanning VSTs here before I take that jump (which will most likely cause other plugins not supported by Mavericks to fail).

[fmr]

It's weird that it crashes on my 10.8.5 system, but not other people's. I know it's not supported by Mountain Lion. I may have to upgrade to 10.9 Mavericks, but I just want to confirm the correct procedures for scanning VSTs here before I take that jump (which will most likely cause other plugins not supported by Mavericks to fail).

There are no special procedures for checking VSTs. They are usually in Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST and Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST3. They can also be (and Cubase also checks, AFAIK) ~/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST and ~/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST3

In OS X, these are the only valid locations for plug-ins. And how do you make Cubase check for plug-ins it didn't pick the first time? AFAIK, there isn't a way to make Cubase selectively check for plug-ins. If they don't show, that's probably because they were blacklisted.

[BERFAB]

Just installed last night. Looks and feels right. Very snappy and responsive, except for a slight bug (I think):

When I go to click on the File tab or the Edit tab, sometimes there's no response. I often have to click it 2 or 3 times before it responds. Anyone else get this?

Also, is there a way to change the default font? It looks like it's meant to mimic hand-written labels, like you would find on a studio mixer with masking tape labels. I find it distracting and would rather have a proper font.

Also, like with the first release of 7.5, track colors don't seem to be automatically assigned. Is this not a feature yet, or am I missing a setting?

Finally, and this is just a peeve, really, but why does Steinberg keep insisting that its alph-numeric authorization codes randomly include "0", "O", "1", "l", "I" without distinction? Fortunately, I was able to accurately guess the differences, but, seriously, can't we find a way to make this a bit easier for the consumer?

I haven't had a lot of time to explore yet, but so far, the 'render in place' feature is worth it's weight in gold. Nicely done.

Cheers
-B

[barryfell]

Just installed last night. Looks and feels right. Very snappy and responsive, except for a slight bug (I think):

When I go to click on the File tab or the Edit tab, sometimes there's no response. I often have to click it 2 or 3 times before it responds. Anyone else get this?

I've not had that. What OS are you on?

Also, is there a way to change the default font? It looks like it's meant to mimic hand-written labels, like you would find on a studio mixer with masking tape labels. I find it distracting and would rather have a proper font.

The default font for track names?

Also, like with the first release of 7.5, track colors don't seem to be automatically assigned. Is this not a feature yet, or am I missing a setting?

You can change it so new tracks are automatically assigned a new track colour under preferences.

[BERFAB]

Just installed last night. Looks and feels right. Very snappy and responsive, except for a slight bug (I think):

When I go to click on the File tab or the Edit tab, sometimes there's no response. I often have to click it 2 or 3 times before it responds. Anyone else get this?

I've not had that. What OS are you on?

Also, is there a way to change the default font? It looks like it's meant to mimic hand-written labels, like you would find on a studio mixer with masking tape labels. I find it distracting and would rather have a proper font.

The default font for track names?

Also, like with the first release of 7.5, track colors don't seem to be automatically assigned. Is this not a feature yet, or am I missing a setting?

You can change it so new tracks are automatically assigned a new track colour under preferences.

Thanks for the response. In order:

1. Running Win 7.

2. The font is used everywhere, I believe. Track names, instrument names in the new rack, etc.

3. OK, good to know the color preference is assignable.

I've not had the time yet to sit down and absorb the vids and manual, which is what I usually try to do with a new release. This weekend I expect I'll be spending some quality time with it. I'm also missing access to many of my .vsti/.vst simply because I haven't had time to scan all the correct folders. All in due time...

Cheers
-B