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Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:35 am

i need your input on a short passage from 18'37'' to 19'27'' on this title published in 1973 by Yes that involves a richly ornate and nervous rhythmic section,

the rhythmic section itself here, supports a synth's highly melodic and colorful solo played by Rick Wakeman
(mixed in stereo full right with a short, roughly synchronized slap back echo on the left channel)

As far as i can judge, this passage is only built on modal transpositions that enhance (or is enhances by) the monodic line with a lot of intensity

What i want to know is if it reflects a typical harmonic progression and all in all , the main aspects of this short passage, composition wise, that i'm highly interested to get analysed in deep

Hope we'll do that together, thanks in advance

Alex

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:09 pm

If by 'typical harmonic progression' you mean functional harmony, dominant-tonic paradigm, definitely not.

The chords Howe does are triadic but follow the line. As to grokking their thinking, I think you'll have to draw your own inferences.
Their approach was, more or less, individuals came in with ideas and they'd decorate an idea together in the studio, then edit it together as a composition and only then learn it in order to perform it live.
At least as per Fragile and Close to the Edge, and this really does seem like that approach. The bit you chose seems to have been driven by Wakeman and has all of this modulation, which does seem to come from 'harmony' study, but you're right, it is this mode moving to the next one.

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:57 pm

I'm amazed in this short passage of such a richness of nuances, being based only on modal transpositions of a single tonality

As far as i can presumptuously judge the modal transpositions mutates as follows : "entrance-I-IV-VII-I-IV-exit" ,

... but i'm such skilled, perhaps someone might correct me ?

Stanoli · Post by **Stanoli** » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:58 pm

It`s 2 different Parts always alternating:
1) The Funky Guitar Party chord
Tempo 126: 3 measures 3/4
2) Mr Howe`s Bassline with 3 note Arpeggios
Tempo 76: 1 measure 4/4 Guitar playing 8ths Triplets

And each time this modulates into a new key (From Am on they just shift the Minor around):
IntroBassline - (C - Bb - Bassline) - (Am - Bassline) - (Dm - Bassline) - (Gm - Bassline) - (Am - Bassline) - (Dm - Bassline) - B(end)

This is the Solobacking for Mister Wakeman and he is just jamming his ass off.

hth:-D

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:13 pm

[quote="Krakatau"]i need your input on a short passage from 18'37'' to 19'27'' on this title published in 1973 by Yes that involves a richly ornate and nervous rhythmic section,

the rhythmic section itself here, supports a synth's highly melodic and colorful solo played by Rick Wakeman
[i](mixed in stereo full right with a short, roughly synchronized slap back echo on the left channel)[/i]

As far as i can judge, this passage is only built on modal transpositions that enhance (or is enhances by) the monodic line with a lot of intensity

What i want to know is if it reflects a typical harmonic progression and all in all , the main aspects of this short passage, composition wise, that i'm highly interested to get analysed in deep

Hope we'll do that together, thanks in advance

Alex[/quote]

I bought this album in 1974 and have been mesmerized by it ever since. I'm happy to read posts where people analyze its structure.

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:26 am

james0tucson wrote:
Krakatau wrote:
I bought this album in 1974 and have been mesmerized by it ever since. I'm happy to read posts where people analyze its structure.

Thanks for the gratifying comment...

...Travelling regularly to Burkina Faso, i thought that such a passage strictly based on modal transpositions could be very interesting for either traditional and modern musicians that are based on manding scale (as many malian and guinean are...) the only one AFAIK that is heptatonic rather than pentatonic, and virtually diatonic compatible , so technically the only potential alteration of the theme would be it overall transposition to the corresponding modes !

Stanoli wrote:It`s 2 different Parts always alternating:

1) The Funky Guitar Party chord
Tempo 126: 3 measures 3/4
2) Mr Howe`s Bassline with 3 note Arpeggios
Tempo 76: 1 measure 4/4 Guitar playing 8ths Triplets

Looks like a highly acrobatic conception : to my ears it sounds much like a binary pulsation that it writing doesn't show at all !!!

Stanoli wrote: IntroBassline - (C - Bb - Bassline) - (Am - Bassline) - (Dm - Bassline) - (Gm - Bassline) - (Am - Bassline) - (Dm - Bassline) - B(end)
hth:-D

So i assume everything,( except the "landing" B at the end, and probably the intro bassline) , is (or could be) based on modal transpositions of a C scale, right ?

Missionary · Post by **Missionary** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:17 am

I found Yes in the late 70's. Ever since I've been amazed, perplexed, confounded, inspired, and emotionally drained by this band like no other. It's controlled chaos. Ordered anarchy. There's something like 15-20 song fragments segued by disconnected transitions that somehow congeal into a single statement. I have no idea to this day how they came up with these musical ideas AND assembled them, learned and memorized them for live performance.

It still astounds me to this day.

xx JPRacer xx · Post by **xx JPRacer xx** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:44 am

I found Yes a year or two ago. Awesome stuff!!! I like "old" music (old Yes, Pink Floyd, Beatles...). Some people say I'm nostalgic, but I never listen to this music ever when I was young, only recently so it's not nostalgia. I'm not a fan of their latest albums though.

Turello · Post by **Turello** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:52 am

I'm speechless..!

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:06 am

I grew to appreciate Tails much later ... When it was released, that was 1 of 5 or 6 isolated segments that I could stand. It is still my favorite moment of the entire two albums.

Things to keep in mind, this album was mostly written by Jon and Steve while touring. It wasn't as bad as the completely disconnected writing and recording process that led to Tormato, but it was close. So, the chord progression, rhythm and keyboard solo were most likely tack ons to demo reals.

The guitar chord progression played behind the "chucka, chuka, chuka" guitar part, is actually the theme progression and is repeated many times during the 4 songs.

annode · Post by **annode** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:31 am

Don`t have an instrument near me to use as a reference, but i`ll do my best to guess.
Sounds like the chords are progressing up along a determined scale.
Chords sound minor/minor 7th maybe, until it resolves to majors at the finish.

Wakeman is improvising around those chords, clearly...style very influenced by the Moog legato.
Once or twice he does seem to play a couple descending mode-like transitions, but it`s pretty fast and he could be doing anything with his virtuoso playing skills.
BTW Wakeman hated everything about his experience on this record.

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:21 am

annode wrote:BTW Wakeman hated everything about his experience on this record.

But his playing style and virtuosity is rather valorised through such themes...

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:07 pm

Tales, for me is Yes' most interesting music. Wakeman outside of Yes rather bores me.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:13 pm

jancivil wrote:Tales, for me is Yes' most interesting music. Wakeman outside of Yes rather bores me.

I like 6 Wives and a lot of No Early Connection. My favorite is Criminal Record. I'm not sure how it flew under the radar. It's really a good record. White Rock has some good stuff on it. Beyond those, I'm with you. It's kind of the same noodley riffs over and over. What really sucks is the large quantity of "Band in a Box" records he did with basically crappy Sound Card backup band instruments playing cheesy versions of old songs that he riffs on. I really hate those.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:43 pm

I'm not aware of anything past the first couple of things. It's well made, he's very good at his job, it just doesn't speak to me. The grandiosity and the cape... I like music of my time better than this reference to history. I think I can see why he didn't enjoy involvement with Tales, aesthetically speaking. I like him a lot on Heart of the Sunrise, like that.

I worked with a singer/songwriter that followed all of this stuff really closely at that time, a real anglophile to boot, so I was a bit overexposed to it I think.
He's very impressive here, and if he wasn't having a good time yet managed this, he's a top professional.

A very short theme from Yes (Tales ...1st track : 18'37''-19'27''), i need your enlightenment !