Have a 50$ B&N gift card, Recommend me some music theory books

[woggle]

no f**king point putting this in

[woggle]

no f**king point putting this in

[Touch The Universe]

Woggle,, what's the deal bro? I really liked your post and you made some good points and suggestions!

[Winstontaneous]

Wow, a swear-filled name-calling spat in the KVR Music Theory forum--who'da thunk? Isn't this supposed to be about harmony?
More like a gathering of un-quaver-ingly crotchet-y minim-alists

For music theory books that encourage immediate practical application, I use and recommend:
- WA Mathieu's "Harmonic Experience"
- Ron Gorow's "Hearing and Writing Music"
- Nicolas Slonimsky's "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns"
- William Russo's "Composing Music"

[Touch The Universe]

Thanks Winstontaneous, I will give those a try

[jancivil]

[can't get banned anymore] what a bunch of c**ts

I got banned for that one. . Using it with less energy [and expecting the targets of it would 'get it'] that this one seems to have, although I'm unsure why.

I don't find John Cage to be probably the most influential composer of any but a very narrow milieu, myself. I would hope I can say that without it being taken as an attack.

("The Rules" of grammar and/or syntax is not the worst analogy to 'whence 'music theory'' but one can make music and have no book theory at all, just as one can learn to form decent sentences ignorant of the method of diagramming them; by speaking and taking one's own notes, by making one's own observations of what happened in some music. One needs to be reading a fair amount, as one needs to be 'doing' music a lot, for the result to be particularly 'respectable', I reckon. One could make a lot of Paul McCartney's harmonies in terms of a theory dissertation I think, but he did not study it like that. I bet the guy with the Zappa paper is using words Zappa never heard of, and talking concepts that, as they work, are coincidence more than a conscious process.)

But... I don't think anyone has an absolutist position here.
This goes on a lot in internet discussions, an exaggeration of the other position gets read into it.

I think in the pop realm people absorb elements of language in what they consume and emulate, and theory is indeed happening [per a Brian Eno].
So I don't know what 'if no one does theory' would look like. There are I think vast swatches of musical activity where no one is going to school or even 'Music Theory for Computer Musicians', and I don't know that the likes of the latter is necessarily better than not reading...
There are particular John Cage compositions that I think are amazing; to me they are well-made in the sense of someone with some real *knowledge* of music.
"Information is not Knowledge..."

[herodotus]

un-quaver-ingly crotchet-y minim-alists

I see what you did there.

I personally am sorry to see people get angry about these issues. I don't see why theory makes people so hostile, on BOTH sides of the argument. I don't think theoretical study is necessary, but neither do I think it a waste of time. Theory to me is a bit like grammar: you don't need it to use your language, but it is an interesting and worthwhile subject for those who are interested.

The problem is that theory as it is commonly taught is very old fashioned. E.g. Untutored heavy metal musicians commonly do things with rhythm that aren't even mentioned in most theory books, much less explained. Hell, you can get a degree in music, with a high GPA, without even being able to play in 7/8 or 11/8 (an anecdotal but factual observation). This just seems kind of wrong when the Rite of Spring is already over 100 years old.

[jancivil]

I was real interested in 20th century techniques while at the same time I got why I was not speaking the language of JS Bach and went to find out how that would be possible. So for me a lot of my interest subsequently has to do with vocabulary. I did not want to be taught how to compose; I was close with someone that did get some top-notch training in this regard and I'm happy not to have done. But he may feel differently. I would say that this one paper I wrote for a grade (and to sort me out as to what I was performing) helped "form" me in my overall modus operandi.

I think John Cage as a legend is more what people understand than John Cage, musician. I have actually heard more than one thing where I would totally say "I want to sound like that". I don't remember at what time these were made, my general impression is kind of not the earliest or very later work.

[jancivil]

That said, there is a lot of philosophy going on that isn't that agreeable to me.

[herodotus]

I think John Cage as a legend is more what people understand than John Cage, musician.

I think so, too. people like the idea of John Cage more than John Cage himself.

I have actually heard more than one thing where I would totally say "I want to sound like that". I don't remember at what time these were made, my general impression is kind of not the earliest or very later work.

Well there is a first for everything. My personal favorite Cage pieces are the imaginary landscapes 1-5, especially #3. But they seem more like a high point than a launching pad.

[jancivil]

Yeah, I hear that.

[arkmabat]

They have print copies of Computer Music mag and others.

[IncarnateX]

Must say these discussions always seem too over-generalizing to me. As if someone could put forward a universal rule about rules that could govern everyone’s individual need or lack of need for music theory. My take on it is pragmatic. If you e.g. want to be an all-round film music composer, you will need skills to fulfill wishes like "I want a tune in this and that style". While talented musicians might do that by ear alone in many cases, I doubt they could write a Bach-like piece of organ music or a choir piece without basic knowledge of the style and principles in question.

However if your only ambition is to be a hobby musician or at best be known for a limited style of music that you master by ear without significant theoretical knowledge, e.g. Dance, Techno, EDM, EBM as far as my own no-need-for-theoretical-guidance concerns. Surely you can extract some theoretical principles from these styles too, but that is not necessarily the same as being explicit aware of- and deliberately guided by these principles.

If you want to play in an orchestra, you will also need some basic knowledge etc.
Personally I have known theoretically deaf instrumentalists that could improvise soloes like a hero when everybody else are nothing but their “backing” but could not corporate when playing a written piece of music in a big band. Lack of basic schooling thus limits their possibilities, but whether this is good or bad for them depends on their own ambitions.

As far as the OP goes my question would be "what do you need it for?" before I could point to specific books.

[trimph1]

Yeah. What are you looking to do?

[Touch The Universe]

I create music in genres, psy chill, goa trance, progressive trance, psy trance. As a hobby right now, but professional in the very near future. But I also enjoy writing noting but piano pieces once in a while. The little of music theory I've learned has helped in creating melodies that I otherwise may have not wrote, for better or worse, but generally I think it has improved. I don't plan on being in an orchestra or any band at all, at least not in the foreseeable future. I know there are books about music theory for electronic musicians and I'll probably end of buying them. The purpose of this thread wasn't just in finding out some popular music theory books, or from users who have read alot, ones that stick out the most to them as being well written, practical for 'computer' use, but also just some books about music in general that people found fascinating that maybe dabbles in music theory,synthesis, acoustics, phsyics of sound, how music effects emotions/chemistry and tips to writing to provoke certain emotions etc. Here are two books that I found as interesting that can be used as examples of what I'm also looking for.

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music_brain.jpg

That said, I would also like to learn how to play the keyboard more proficiently. I already have some video tutorials lined up but any others that have caught your attention for being concise and relevant to electronic music would be of even greater help. I appreciate everyones suggestions and enjoyed reading the tips and other topics that were brought up. Interesting stuff and good points