How about a daw with per track timelines for polyrhythms?

[whyterabbyt]

Bidule supports multiple simultaneous tempo/time sources.

Seriously?

Any VST plugin inside Bidule which needs external tempo info needs to be sync'd to a tempo source (eg a Sync Transport module), but every single one could be synced to a different tempo source

[stanlea]

Upcoming product from Loomer will do also, it should come soonish now.

[She Changed Her Mind]

So, let's say I could use any time signature from 1/1 up to 32/32, for instance, anywhere in my project? Interesting. Fascinating maybe

[herodotus]

Personally I find time signatures to be annoying and cumbersome for dealing with polyrhythms.

What I would like is a way of changing the background time grid for midi and audio to any time unit.

This way, instead of having to choose a tempo from 2 bpm to 300 bpm, and trying to line things up with that, or relying on default time units of 10 MS or 50 MS or whatever, you could define your basic grid unit as 13 MS or 17 ms or 103 MS or whatever and line all of your midi or audio up with it.

Ideally you could then change the grid unit to 37 MS or 211 MS or 519 MS or whatever and the host would do the math and align the previously placed elements within the new time grid without screwing up the time relationships.

But as I know that this sort of approach would be intuitive to no one but me, I don't expect to see it as a feature any time soon.

[She Changed Her Mind]

Changing background grid is what I meant. Otherwise it is of little use regarded to editing notes IMO.
Say, any number from 3 up to 32, per bar indication.
So follows (in a range of 1-32); a time signature from 3 up to 32. Per 'bar grid'.
Where the numbers (1,2),4,8,16 and 32 are already existing in the grid of the editor by standard.
So 3 will be related to a 'bar grid' of 3,6,9,12,18,24 and 27.
5 (10,15,20,25,30), 7 (14,21,28), 11 (22), 13 (26), 17, 19, 23, 29 and 31.
Althus counting up from 3 there are 10 extra grid formats needed per bar: 3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29 and 31.
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Example: when I enter some notes in the editor I could choose any time signature between 3-32 and change it. Then I could quantize the notes to that particular time signature and so on. The possibilities are groovy and endless. I suppose.

[jancivil]

Numerology.

That's the one I'd heard about but could not name.

In traditional piano role sequencers, just ignore the beat/bar/measure lines and do the math in your head. It's easy enough to change time signature without changing tempo (a measure or 5/4 has 5 beats instead of 4 in 4/4, so just count in 5s or 3+2s or whatever). Changing the tempo with the time signature can be done but it's a bit trickier, just set the divisions of the piano role to a high resolution and figure out how many steps are necessary to express different divisions of the master tempo.

In service of a music lesson, I like this. There are some cases where I would maybe prefer two (more than two is a little whacky for me) independent streams of thought, but my way o' life involves, eg., '5' in the time of '4' which at high latency I may have to 'edit' rather than reliably perform. (Although in the beginning with lower latency my improvisations contain some quite crazy things which I have to study; this is when I establish barlines and so forth.) But, straight hard writing, resolution displayed as 1000 ticks per 16th note: writing 5 'quarter notes' in a bar of 4/4 displays as 1.1.0, 1.4.200, 2.3.400, 3.2.600, 4.1.800. (I would prefer to play them in, this sounds less-than-lifelike to do it for long.)

The obverse of this, 4 in the time of 5, amounts to tying a sixteenth to a quarter note. You can use that method to a certain extent to express the other time signature in preference to changing the actual time signature, that is to the extent it resolves/agrees. Of course the first agreement lands on the second beat of your next bar.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Numerology.

That's the one I'd heard about but could not name.

Also Raxntrax

[jancivil]

Personally I find time signatures to be annoying and cumbersome for dealing with polyrhythms.

There's two different things to be concerned with here. There is a type of polyrhythm which includes 2 or 4 and 3 emphases within compound time. Hemiola type. Then there is another level with a more exclusive name 'cross-rhythm'. There is the overlap of 'triplets' of course, which can be expressed in terms of compound. And one can express most things in terms of tied values and you're crossing the barlines, in preference to 'tuplet' definitions.
It looks like you're interested in cross-rhythm.

What I would like is a way of changing the background time grid for midi and audio to any time unit.

define your basic grid unit as 13 MS or 17 ms or 103 MS or whatever and line all of your midi or audio up with it.

Ideally you could then change the grid unit to 37 MS or 211 MS or 519 MS or whatever and the host would do the math and align... intuitive to no one but me

Me brain hurts. I lose focus too easily in terms of that [rather than bars/beats] but I get the concept.
I will share a real basic thing I just noticed in Cubase (I've never really explored quantize, having never noticed a particular need and ideologically disposed against), that you can define any tuplet to a factor of grid; x [on out to 127] to the whole, to the half, to the quarter note... on out to the 128th note. And save as a preset.

But of course two independent time signatures is a matter of the sequencer establishing independent bar lines. I'm going to prefer 'agreement' or resolution after a time so it isn't something I've lost any sleep over. Experimentally... I downloaded the demo of Numerology. It kind of looks like it's all hard quantized from the tutorial material so far, which aesthetically represents 'machine music' to me so it would probably not warrant 129 bucks for me.

There is a far more pertinent thing as to cross-rhythm, tuplets and nested tuplets someone has done, and posted in this subforum that is not very expensive. More for the experience and learning but I believe it can patch out to third party VIs. Can't recall the name, I'm sure it's in my youtube history though.

[herodotus]

There's two different things to be concerned with here. There is a type of polyrhythm which includes 2 or 4 and 3 emphases within compound time. Hemiola type. Then there is another level with a more exclusive name 'cross-rhythm'. There is the overlap of 'triplets' of course, which can be expressed in terms of compound. And one can express most things in terms of tied values and you're crossing the barlines, in preference to 'tuplet' definitions.
It looks like you're interested in cross-rhythm.

I wish this description of terminology were commonly accepted, but I have checked many different reference works and the usage you are referring to here is far from universal. Many reference works don't even list these terms, or list only one of them. I have also been reading Gunther Schuler's books on jazz recently and he uses these terms loosely and interchangeably.

As a practical matter, I personally have no trouble adapting my normal music to whatever underlying measurement system is provided by whatever host I happen to be using. I have gotten used to it over the years, just as one gets used to the peculiarities of notation.

But I have this latent obsession with Conlon Nancarrow style experiments with clusters of different rhythms that have complicated metrical relationships with each other, and being able to coordinate these on a grid with a (more or less) base 10 system of measurement behind it would just be much easier than wrestling with several different tracks with different time signatures and tempi and tuplets and so on.

But as I said, I don't really expect anyone to indulge this obsession for me.

[jancivil]

There's two different things to be concerned with here. There is a type of polyrhythm which includes 2 or 4 and 3 emphases within compound time. Hemiola type. Then there is another level with a more exclusive name 'cross-rhythm'. There is the overlap of 'triplets' of course, which can be expressed in terms of compound. And one can express most things in terms of tied values and you're crossing the barlines, in preference to 'tuplet' definitions.
It looks like you're interested in cross-rhythm.

I wish this description of terminology were commonly accepted, but I have checked many different reference works and the usage you are referring to here is far from universal. Many reference works don't even list these terms, or list only one of them. I have also been reading Gunther Schuler's books on jazz recently and he uses these terms loosely and interchangeably.

For instance, the wiki article Polyrhythm disagrees with itself. It defines it as "The simultaneous use of two or more conflicting rhythms, that are not readily perceived as deriving from one another, or as simple manifestations of the same meter."; then goes into Hemiola as an example.

[jancivil]

'the duple beats are cross-beats within a triple beat scheme.' They are and they aren't. That problem obviously solved by compound time, that is compound time.
If it is a number that the 'beat scheme' in terms of duple subdivision never_includes, it is absolutely a cross-rhythm.

[marioisaac]

Ableton has a Perfect Solution for you guys:




You can select different Time Signatures on a Per Clip Basis; just change the Clip Time Signature and the Grid will adjust accordingly. This goes beyond different Time Signatures per Track; this gives you the possibility of multiple Time Signatures within one track.

Useful shortcuts for working with the grid resolution are:
CRTL + 1 = Halves the Grid Resolution.
CTRL + 2 = Doubles the Grid Resolution.
CRTL + 3 = Enables/Disables Triplet Grid Resolution.
CTRL + 4 = Emables/Disables Grid Resolution.

If you want to bypass the Grid Resolution when adjusting MIDI notes, Transient or Warp Markers (for audio files), hold the ALT key while moving them.

As for the Master Click Track Time Signature, you will have to change that manually depending on the Time Signature you want to record at that moment.

[ValliSoftware]

visual aspects go.

A blind man would disagree with you there.
It's the tempo that is tied to all tracks.
In my video, if I still use all the time signatures that I setup and created a midi region to simulate a metronome click for the first time signature of 4/4 then looped it across all time signatures and turned off the global metronome and didn't accent on the first beat of the 4/4 midi region I created, then just played and looked away from Logic. I would never know when it entered and/or left any of the time signatures but I would always know the tempo it's in.

With that said, here's how to do what you're asking for in Logic Pro X.
Different time signatures per track.

[LoopyFruit]

Some interesting polyrhythm videos..................Warning do not watch while consuming alcohol

http://bouncemetronome.com/video-resour ... olyrhythms

[Dúnedain]

Already tried Sibelius?