KVR Audio

Cinebient · Post by **Cinebient** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:53 pm

Edited: Wrong post. Uups, sorry

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:37 pm

All 3 signals in this track are sent into a huge B2 which is then sent into a long diffused ÜberMod:

http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/timeless-tale

JenniferKinney · Post by **JenniferKinney** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:30 am

Galbanum wrote:... Unlike Aether, B2 does not technically have a separate ER and LR engine....

This is a curious statement to me, because I had been under the impression that B2 was capable of doing any thing that Aether can do. I take it my assumption was wrong, and Aether is able to do certain things B2 can't? Are the differences between Aether and B2 documented anywhere? I'd consider buying Aether if I better understood what it could do for me that B2 can't do. Thanks again.

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:33 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:All 3 signals in this track are sent into a huge B2 which is then sent into a long diffused ÜberMod:

http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/timeless-tale

Very nice Simon!

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:13 am

JenniferKinney wrote:
Galbanum wrote:... Unlike Aether, B2 does not technically have a separate ER and LR engine....
This is a curious statement to me, because I had been under the impression that B2 was capable of doing any thing that Aether can do. I take it my assumption was wrong, and Aether is able to do certain things B2 can't? Are the differences between Aether and B2 documented anywhere? I'd consider buying Aether if I better understood what it could do for me that B2 can't do. Thanks again.

Yes, it can. B2, Aether, and Breeze are designed to compliment each other, not replace each other. I should really make a simple chart that compares and lists the differences.

Some general info in response to a similar question on another forum, to someone who asked why we can't/won't combine all three into one megalithic product:

"Obstacles" are a relative term. Of course we could do whatever we want, but the simple fact of the matter is people still love Aether. It has become a bit of an industry standard. We get new high-profile clients almost daily telling us how much they love it and how important it has become to their workflow. These are people working on Album of The Year Grammy Awards Projects, and major Hollywood blockbuster scores. They can, and do use whatever they choose and they have easy access to everything and anything. They have done MUCH more in music and film than I have ever done. So who am I to argue with them when they tell us they still love Aether?

So yes, we could make "one verb to rule them all" and charge more for it, and try, probably futilely, to make everyone on the planet happy with ONE, megalithic product. But we feel it is better to have the three we do.

I personally happen to be fairly math and science oriented. I like experimental stuff. I also happen play piano and love classical music, but when it comes to technology, I like to think like a scientist more or less. B2 reflects that. This mindset is perhaps not ideal for everyone. B2 makes zero, none, no effort to connect with physical reality. It is entirely an abstract math/engineering construction. The only thing connected to physical reality, is the "Size" parameter. And even that i think might be better measured in time/seconds instead of Meters. B2 has one rule: if it sounds cool, it IS cool. Who cares if it is a Hall, Plate, Room, whatever... B2 does NOT. B2 cares about abstract math, science, and philosophical aesthetics if you will... We might one day expose some Linear Algebra stuff in it or other advanced mathematics for sound-designers and experimentalists. B2, when it comes to making presets, is for explorers... B2 is like Special Ops.

Aether thinks in terms of physical reality. Here we have, and will continue to, try to model what happens in real spaces. It uses parameters that are commonly expected to be found in reverb and connects them to things that happen in the real world. This is a language more people follow. Aether will continue to evolve in this direction. Yes, it can do some unreal things also given its extreme size range and filter flexibility, but it's ultimate aim will be to focus on real physical spaces... (even if they are extreme).

Breeze, is a plug-it-in-and-forget-it product. It sounds F-ing aweome at what it does. But what it does it not as versatile as Aether and B2, nor is it deigned to be. It's great for instrumentalists who simply want an awesome generic space for their vocal, gtr, drums, keys, whatever. It is designed to disappear and simply make your tracks feel perfectly spatialized in a generically awesome spatial environment. It's also great to use a ton of instances of on track inserts for small/ambiance type of stuff and use Aether/B2 on sends/buses for the "magic"...

and later I added:

It occurs to me, my explanation above seems to infer B2 is only for freaky sound-design stuff. That is NOT true. Many of our orchestral film scoring people love B2 and a lot prefer it over Aether even. B2 has an incredible sense of depth to it that makes it popular for these application.

I have been using B2 primarily on my own solo piano material also:

https://soundcloud.com/andrew_souter...er-autum-rains

So it is more than capable at subtly as well.

And some of our peers (hi Den! ) have made presets with names like "Hall" etc in them. That is all fine and great if people like to see these kind of names. My point above is simply to say in the designing the actual algorithm we did not think in these kind of terms. We thought more in relative mathematical and geometric terms. Preset designers and users of course are encouraged to use B2 however they see fit and are free to name their presets however they like. I personally tend to be a bit, perhaps excessively, creative in my naming choices. Others may actually like more traditional naming conventions like "Long Dark Hall". If that helps you find what you are looking for, great. I'm just being open in saying there was certainly no real-world physical example that we ourselves looked at to model a "Long Dark Hall" when we created the B2 alg.

Point is B2 is designed to be a wide open platform to add any and all various ideas, experimental or not, without much regard to whether or not this is what happens in the real world. To be perfectly honest we initially expected Aether to remain king for Orchestral music for example. But B2 has such incredible sense of depth to it, that it has become very popular for this exact usage as shown in the Hobbit 3 example earlier. In this other forum thread someone else supported/confirmed these statements:

I'm not shilling for Andrew/2CAudio here, but just wanted to support and reiterate his explanation here with my own personal opinion on using B2 for concert halls, scoring stages, etc. I setup my own custom B2 presets for my orchestral scoring template to fit the libraries I am using. I tried pretty much everything, and nothing had the depth and width of the halls I could create with B2.

It takes a little learning and understanding parameter interactions, but then it is easier to get the right balance and sound of early reflections and hall tail than I found with other options (and others are still great verbs, but I like how much easier it was to balance my template between sections and get a bigger stage sound with B2 than other reverbs).

Aether's ER engine in technically unlike anything in B2 or Breeze. It uses completely different technology, and is almost an entirely self contained product. (You could if you wanted use Aether for ERs and B2 to supply tails for example.) The ER engine in Aether is like a Ray-Tracing alg that calculates reflections of real physical room geometry and real physical material properties such as absorption coeffs etc. B2 (or Breeze) does not have anything at all like this.

Aether is also capable of one family of presets that is more difficult to achieve directly in B2: namely short/fast ERs PLUS a slowly attacking LR "diffuse energy field". This is harder to achieve in B2 using a single instance. I gave some recipes to achieve the slow LR attack aspect above, but the most effective way to achieve very slow attacks in B2 is to use both engines in series setting Cascade and Balance to 100% and in this case you will loose the ERs. So you might want to use two B2s each on Send busses, one with ERs-only, and the other using Dual Engine Cascade A->B, setup to get the very long LR attack if that is the goal. Admittedly this IS a very desirable class of presets. It is great for achieving very smooth hall sounds. Aether is more capable of creating it directly. B2 was designed from the start to be a "character" verb with various non-linearities, and this includes "chunky/clustered" tail kind of things. This is another approach to hall-sound that was found somewhat in some older devices, whether intentionally or not.

I find if the tail is too smooth the reverb easily gets lost and/or blends exactly with the source, but if some intentional roughness is created it can exaggerate the sense of spatiousness... this is particularly useful on large/huge sizes...

Also a general bit of wisdom regarding reverb presets: if the source sound has slow/smooth attacks and therefore few transients, then the verb preset can be more sparse/rough. For example some slow attack synth pads or synth strings, sound epic in B2 with the more sparse, granular kind of presets.

If the source sound is very transient heavy, then typically the ideal preset is very dense and smooth (unless intentionally going for special effects.) For example, a plucked nylon Guitar would sound great with Aether's fast/short ER + slow, smooth LR attack Hall presets.

There are of course exceptions to this, and every other, rule, but this is a good one to keep in mind IMHO.

Hope it helps...

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:22 am

accidental double post...

JenniferKinney · Post by **JenniferKinney** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:54 am

Thanks for the explanation. I will demo Aether now.

JenniferKinney · Post by **JenniferKinney** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:11 am

How long will Aether be on sale for $175?

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:36 am

JenniferKinney wrote:How long will Aether be on sale for $175?

a few days into January...

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:37 am

Galbanum wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:All 3 signals in this track are sent into a huge B2 which is then sent into a long diffused ÜberMod:

http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/timeless-tale
Very nice Simon!

Thank's, Andrew!

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:42 am

A modulating and pitchbended synth drone convoluted with/by a soundscape derived from a music box and all of this sent into a lovely B2 space:

http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/the-day-we-decide

xtrax · Post by **xtrax** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:14 am

https://soundcloud.com/dens-place/b2-new-den-hall

My new Hall for sharing with all users of B2 reverb...

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:23 am

xtrax wrote:https://soundcloud.com/dens-place/b2-new-den-hall

My new Hall for sharing with all users of B2 reverb...

nice preset Den!

BTW, we are finishing up some minor updates to all verbs this week also. Hopefully we will post them by the weekend.

xtrax · Post by **xtrax** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:30 am

Galbanum wrote: nice preset Den!

BTW, we are finishing up some minor updates to all verbs this week also. Hopefully we will post them by the weekend.

Thanks.

New updates? Interesting. What kind of changes we can expect?

Andrew Souter · Post by **Andrew Souter** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:50 pm

... mostly compatibility/maintenance stuff... nothing incredibly interesting... maybe some very minor performance improvements by virtue of using the latest and greatest compilers...

2CAudio B2: Full Body. Maximum Attitude.