Camel Audio ceasing sales? [Update: CA acquired by Apple]

[Daags]

bundles are bundles for a reason. no one would buy them if they weren't offering a discount over buying each item individually. almost every developer who has bundles, mentions that "bundle is N% off!". it's not "enticement" or deceptive marketing, it's standard practice across not only the industry, but across just about any industry.

I know. Obviously I know. There is a context here though, that you have ignored when I made the statement you are replying to. The context being that if this is a business related closure, it is highly unlikely that they didn't know the imminent closure and subsequent removal of support was a distinct and very real possibility. If indeed they didn't know it was an absolute certainty. But lets not get into certainties, the mere possibility is enough foundation IMO to establish dubious intent.

Yes, this is an assumption. But if it is a business related closure, it is a reasonable assumption as far as I'm concerned.

So in that very specific and not at all frequent context I believe it is ethically dubious to sell such expensive bundles with enticement of big discounts, however ordinary it is to discount bundles significantly.


Clearly though, this was not a seasonal sale as the libelous liar TonyVegas was claiming. But it doesn't really need to be, imo, to make it dubious - particularly regarding the expense involved.

[rustman]

For now I'm just relieved that no personal tragedies have been reported which means all of the core team are doing fine.

Yep that's the main thing.

Put me on that bandwagon too. I got here fashionably late, and there is no way I'm reading all 77 pages (so far) to get here. I gather there is still no full story available. The only good thing about this (as far as I can merely speculate) is that I own all of their products and soundsets. I will most surely check on my backup scenario to protect them.

[wagtunes]

There is a question I'm really dying to ask but don't dare because I know if I do I'm going to get viciously flamed. It concerns the availability of Alchemy after July 7th and legal ways, if any, to obtain a copy.

I will leave it at that.

[beely]

Thanks - and also some idea of the timescale between the equivalent of today's hysteria and the final official announcement from Apple.

This is how it happened:

Evidence of the acquisition has appeared in the weekly bulletin of AGCM, Italy's antitrust regulatory agency. The announcement, which is in Italian, begins on page 37 of the bulletin (PDF) published on May 28, and the most relevant portion translates into English as follows:

Under the provisions of the contract "Asset Purchase Agreement Relating to the business as an ongoing concern of Redmatica S.r.l." (hereinafter the Agreement) with the present operation, Apple intends to acquire, through a transfer of assets, the business Redmatica.

AGCM determined that the proposed acquisition would not be anticompetitive in nature given the relatively small sizes of the entities in that specific market and an abundance of competitors. Consequently, the agency does not object to the acquisition by Apple.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/30/app ... redmatica/


There was no official announcement. Redmatica closed it's doors and posted the website notice as this story broke, rapidly upgraded the authorisation scheme to serial numbers and sent emails to users with their serials and new download links (it was all rather quick), and Apple said nothing, but the looks of it, not even a press release. It has a standard media comment for this situations, which is along the lines of "From time to time, Apple buys companies for various strategic reasons it would like to keep private"... etc etc

And within something like two or three weeks, the Redmatica site was gone completely. It was a shame, but good for Andrea who presumably went to work on the Logic team, or some other area Apple could use him with.

[mutantdog]

There is a question I'm really dying to ask but don't dare because I know if I do I'm going to get viciously flamed. It concerns the availability of Alchemy after July 7th and legal ways, if any, to obtain a copy.

I will leave it at that.

Since they are watermarked i'd say its up to you to ensure you have a backup.

[wagtunes]

There is a question I'm really dying to ask but don't dare because I know if I do I'm going to get viciously flamed. It concerns the availability of Alchemy after July 7th and legal ways, if any, to obtain a copy.

I will leave it at that.

Since they are watermarked i'd say its up to you to ensure you have a backup.

I'm talking about somebody who doesn't own the software yet.

[HideawayStudio]

Thanks - and also some idea of the timescale between the equivalent of today's hysteria and the final official announcement from Apple.

This is how it happened:

Evidence of the acquisition has appeared in the weekly bulletin of AGCM, Italy's antitrust regulatory agency. The announcement, which is in Italian, begins on page 37 of the bulletin (PDF) published on May 28, and the most relevant portion translates into English as follows:

Under the provisions of the contract "Asset Purchase Agreement Relating to the business as an ongoing concern of Redmatica S.r.l." (hereinafter the Agreement) with the present operation, Apple intends to acquire, through a transfer of assets, the business Redmatica.

AGCM determined that the proposed acquisition would not be anticompetitive in nature given the relatively small sizes of the entities in that specific market and an abundance of competitors. Consequently, the agency does not object to the acquisition by Apple.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/30/app ... redmatica/


There was no official announcement. Redmatica closed it's doors, and Apple said nothing, but the looks of it, not even a press release. It has a standard media comment for this situations, which is along the lines of "From time to time, Apple buys companies for various strategic reasons it would like to keep private"... etc etc

Oh my.. how very typical of them!

[todd_r]

I'd bet Native instruments bought, they'll either publish Alchemy 2, or incorporate the technology in to Kontakt 6.

Or make Kontchemy, or Alchtakt.

[Sampleconstruct]

Well this much I will say (hopefully it's allowed):

No. Kontakt, HALion, Mach Five etc do not represent anywhere near suitable replacements for Alchemy 2. Wish you guys will have the chance at some point to hear just how good the morphing additive/spectral engine thing got. We are talking Kyma levels of possibilities here.

Well it doesn't help orgasming about version 2 when nobody but a few Alpha-testers and sounddesigners will ever get their hands on it, so any suggestions for alternatives are helpful and looking back won't take us anywhere.

[beely]

Oh my.. how very typical of them!

Yes, it's very similar to the Camel situation which is why it smelled to me of a buyout straight away.

Time will tell I guess...

[mutantdog]

I'm talking about somebody who doesn't own the software yet.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[SLiC]

There is a question I'm really dying to ask but don't dare because I know if I do I'm going to get viciously flamed. It concerns the availability of Alchemy after July 7th and legal ways, if any, to obtain a copy.

I will leave it at that.

It is a fair and interesting question. If Camel Audio no longer exists as an entity then I am not sure who owns the IP, copyright or whatever....I speak as someone who bought the product and many soundpacks, potentially it will go from having some sort of transferable value to no value if the market is flooded with free copies that are not considered 'pirated' copies....

Do the people who made the soundpacks at least keep their 'ownership'/ability to sell them directly?

[whyterabbyt]

So in that very specific and not at all frequent context I believe it is ethically dubious to sell such expensive bundles with enticement of big discounts, however ordinary it is to discount bundles significantly.

Ah right. If you're a business who has had been offering a long-term bundle deal on your website, then its ethically dubious to not remove that deal in case you cease trading.

[Daags]

There is a question I'm really dying to ask but don't dare because I know if I do I'm going to get viciously flamed. It concerns the availability of Alchemy after July 7th and legal ways, if any, to obtain a copy.

I will leave it at that.

Buying a used license. But then again, there have been reports that they have removed the relevant form/webpage from user accounts that facilitate license transfers.

Nice. Better to sell new licenses to the uninformed before shutting the doors, then to allow existing customers to sell to the informed. [/sarcasm]

Hopefully that is a server issue or web gremlin, or if it's an accurate reflection of policy - something they reconsider.

[whyterabbyt]

It is a fair and interesting question. If Camel Audio no longer exists as an entity then I am not sure who owns the IP, copyright or whatever....

The same people as owned it before, whether thats Camel or someone else. IP and copyright dont dissipate in the absence of a running business.

I speak as someone who bought the product and many soundpacks, potentially it will go from having some sort of transferable value to no value if the market is flooded with free copies that are not considered 'pirated' copies....

but which actually are pirated copies.