Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership

[LawrenceF]

^^ Really ? I own studio one and don't remember something like that.

Because it doesn't have it. You always see random comments like that in DAW threads where somebody says.. "X can do that, has been doing that for years." ... when it's often enough simply not true at all.

You can get there easily enough with Audio Bend and Groove Quantize (extract groove from harmony A and apply it to harmonies B, C, and D to align vocals) but no, it doesn't have a tool designed specifically for that function like a Vocalign clone or similar.

[arkmabat]

Hrm. I'm hardly a fanboy as I've owned it for a grand total of like 30 days. I just recall Studio One as a very viable alternative to the $400 Vocalign.

[budweiser]

^^ Really ? I own studio one and don't remember something like that.

Because it doesn't have it. You always see random comments like that in DAW threads where somebody says.. "X can do that, has been doing that for years." ... when it's often enough simply not true at all.

You can get there easily enough with Audio Bend and Groove Quantize (extract groove from harmony A and apply it to harmonies B, C, and D to align vocals) but no, it doesn't have a tool designed specifically for that function like a Vocalign clone or similar.

Yep. I searched studio one but found nothing except the usual suspects you can find in every daw. But nothing that quick and specialized as vocalsync. This and ARA makes sonar a real killer in vocal treatment. Hope cubase's variaudio will have a formant tool soon and a similar functionality because it seems really handy !

[LawrenceF]

Hrm. I'm hardly a fanboy as I've owned it for a grand total of like 30 days. I just recall Studio One as a very viable alternative to the $400 Vocalign.

Like I said above, you can get there easily enough but it's not Vocalign, it's Audio Bend + Groove Quantize, the method to do that, or get most of the way there with little effort + a little manual editing of the bend markers to finish it off. I suspect that the previous version of Sonar or Cubase or any daw that can quantize audio and that also has groove extraction that works can do something similar... although it might not be so easy in Cubase if you can't do all the tracks at the same time on the arrange timeline, dunno.

But I would think a dedicated tool like they added in Sonar maybe works a little better, or faster or easier, otherwise there'd be no real point in having it.

But sure, "viable alternative" is maybe a better phrase.

[EnGee]

I have just upgraded from X3e studio to X3e prducer about 2 months ago, so I don't think I will upgrade for at least 2-3 years from now (if ever!). All the additional features they added I don't need. I need midi fixes (in the piano roll) and notation improvements, but I don't think they will ever do it.

I have other DAWs but the only DAW I might upgrade soon is Studio One when version 3 comes, but let's see first what's new it will bring.

[arkmabat]

Fair enough. It is a lengthier task than Vocalign for sure. Found this: Aligning Vocals w/ Audio Bend:

[vespesian]

What a bad idea.

For the developers, the pressure is going to be onto devs to crank out features, content, anything on a monthly basis (CW is not a huge company). It also sounds like an administrative nightmare to manage.

For their customers, it's going to be harder for them to "speak with their wallets" re: overall satisfaction with this product, as one time update fees often serve as a yea or nay feedback from consumers to the company. In other words, how are you, the user, going to pressure CW, with your $$, to fix a bug, if there is no inferred financial timetable to use as leverage ("just keep paying - we'll get to it")? Remember how much Sonar changed (for the better), after the last customer revolt.

[flugel45]

This new membership model gave me a little scare at first, but after looking at it a little closer, it seems to be a great deal for the customer. Pay the annual cost (that I'd be paying for my ~annual upgrades anyway) and get a DAW that is constantly evolving and improving, more frequent updates and fixes, and more transparency regarding its development. I'm not seeing the sky falling from where I'm standing.

+1

No sky falling here either.

As an X3 user, I think CW have shown "what they're made of" this past year. X3e is as solid as they come; most of the major bugs of years-past have been squashed. For the rest, there's an unofficial (user-maintained) bug-list kept visible on the forums, and the bakers have been steadily working at shortening it.... What other DAW dev does that?

As for the new subscription policy, the "Pay upfront for one full year" prices are pretty much the same as what you would pay in the past - and you still own it, just like before. In the past, if you couldn't afford the upgrade price, you saved up for it or went elsewhere. Those options are still available to you, but now you have a third option - pay by the month.

It's this third option - or the word "subscription" (which CW doesn't use btw ) - that seems to rub a few people the wrong way, despite the fact that they are perfectly free to ignore it and pay roughly what they always have for a year's ownership.

[LawrenceF]

Fair enough. It is a lengthier task than Vocalign for sure. Found this: Aligning Vocals w/ Audio Bend:

I actually made that video and I obviously (imo anyway, with the clarity of hindsight) went a wee bit 'over the top' with the "Who Needs Vocalign?" bit I put in there.

When you spend hours editing, things like that aren't often a big deal in isolation, but still, I always do welcome dedicated task specific tools that make anything easier so I imagine that thing in Sonar will get some use. Every little bit helps.

[id4kvr]

What makes you think they'll actually produce more frequent updates?

The new pricing model is based on adding new features and updates as they are completed, rather than making the customer wait for point releases.

[memyselfandus]

What are the new features?

[lfm]

What a bad idea.

For the developers, the pressure is going to be onto devs to crank out features, content, anything on a monthly basis (CW is not a huge company). It also sounds like an administrative nightmare to manage.

For their customers, it's going to be harder for them to "speak with their wallets" re: overall satisfaction with this product, as one time update fees often serve as a yea or nay feedback from consumers to the company. In other words, how are you, the user, going to pressure CW, with your $$, to fix a bug, if there is no inferred financial timetable to use as leverage ("just keep paying - we'll get to it")? Remember how much Sonar changed (for the better), after the last customer revolt.

I think it might be rather good actually.

No specific date that all sales are, so users buy any time over year - and will also expire any time over year. I always felt that end of summer I don't buy since I expect a new major release in fall and you hold back.

There is no penalty if not renewing right when expired, as I could find. It's renewal rate - so that keeps devs on their toes to deliver something new in between, and with that comes bugfixes as well, all year round - not a couple of hasty months after release and then nothing.

One never knows with Cake though, if devs become sloppy at testing since they throw out new versions all the time during the year.

And to throw out major remakes all the time is maybe not likely in this scenario.

But total has potential becoming better, and shorter timeperiod for FR's to shine through.

But running smallest version as I do, I won't expect too much targeting me. But $50 annual cost what can you expect.

If to compare with Avid which has an outrageous approach and "stick it" to their customer base as some put it on a podcast I listened to - Cakewalk is really the good guys you want to succeed.

[cryophonik]

What a bad idea.
For the developers, the pressure is going to be onto devs to crank out features, content, anything on a monthly basis (CW is not a huge company).

The pressure is already on them to crank out features, fixes, etc. What exactly do you think these guys are doing after they release each new version? They're working on features, content, etc. for the next release and bug fixes - that won't change. The difference here is that, rather than wait until the next version or until they compile enough features to release an X.x update, you'll see a steady stream of updates and fixes as they occur. If any of you guys have Adobe Acrobat Reader on your computer, you know exactly what I'm talking about - you'll get a notice that an update is available, a list of the new features or fixes, and the option to install it (no, you're not required to install it if you don't want to). You're getting the same bug fixes that you'd get under the old model, just more frequently, so this beta-testing stuff is just nonsense - it will be the same fixes, just sooner. You're also getting new features - in the first year, you'll be getting what is essentially the equivalent of X4 (immediately) and X5 (incrementally, over the course of the next). The difference is that they won't be called X4, X5, etc. - you're buying a version (Platinum, Professional, etc.) that will be evolving over time. You can buy in any time (annually or monthly) to get the most recent version. After a year, you're free to leave it at that, pay no more, and still have your Sonar work in perpetuity, but without any more updates. Or, you can pay your upgrade fee (annual or monthly), and continue to get updates/new features.

[cryophonik]

What are the new features?

https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Versions

https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Whats-New (stuff that you will get immediately)

https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Up-Next#start (stuff that will get rolled out)

[Jim Roseberry]

FWIW, You're going to see more software companies going to "subscription" based sales... as it keeps a more steady/predictable stream of revenue flowing in.
It's hard for a company to survive with most of it's revenue coming in one large burst (major new release) every 12-18 months.

-Cost of a yearly upgrade is about the same (many have gone up recently)
-You also have the option to pay monthly
-At the end of the year, you own the license paid for (year's worth)
-If you opt out of the monthly "subscription", you're only out of pocket for the time you paid/used Sonar

ie: Three months into the subscription, if you decide Sonar isn't for you... you're only out $60 (vs. full upgrade cost).

All in how you look at it...
I have a subscription to the Adobe Creative Cloud.
I don't use all the tools, but I make extensive use of 5 of the applications.
To me, it's easily worth the $50/month vs buying all five applications.
I like the fact that I always have the latest version of Photoshop, After-Effects, Audition, Premier, etc.