Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership

[arkmabat]

I use Sonar as a backup traditional DAW ever since *.Wav exporting started acting up for me. It's fixed now (can't export to desktop apparently?!) but yikes... Even Audacity can export a *.Wav effortlessly.

[whyterabbyt]

Think of this scenario. Your subscription ended while your DAW still have critical bugs. One week after that they release bug fixes for it (a minor version update), and you cannot access it since you're not subscribed. You have to pay a full 12 month subscription again to get that fix permanently.

you keep referring to this scenario as if it were guaranteed to happen and the only possible scenario which things can follow. now think of this scenario: you bought the DAW, found a bug, developers acknowledged the bug, but it was fixed only in a next major version. what now?

Burillo, Ive been saying that exact same thing that for about four pages now. He's point-blank avoiding accepting it, and all you're going to get in return are circular arguments and ad hominems.

[xamido]

Comparison : In the subscription DAW, if they fix the bug in the next subscription version, over the course of the subsequent 12 months to that they are also adding new updates. You're not only paying for the bug fix, you'll also be getting new features.

Difference : Effect is the same.

But this scenario might also occur. You subscribe during unfortunate time when they don't release any major updates. Example :

Cakewalk release major update in May 2015. Your subscription expired in June but that major update still have critical bug. They then release bug fixes in July, you're forced to upgrade just to get that bug fix.

And then your subscription ends next year without cakewalk actually delivering major update during your subscription period. Few weeks after it ended cakewalk announces new and major update.

This is a possible scenario. Sonar X1 was released in december 2010, Sonar X2 was released in september 2012.

It's great if cakewalk actively release new feature every few months, but it's also possible that there can be twelve month period without major updates or new features that justify the subscription price.

The issue is i don't trust Cakewalk to deliver new features on time.

[whyterabbyt]

Comparison : In the subscription DAW, if they fix the bug in the next subscription version, over the course of the subsequent 12 months to that they are also adding new updates. You're not only paying for the bug fix, you'll also be getting new features.

Difference : Effect is the same.

But this scenario might also occur. You subscribe during unfortunate time when they don't release any major updates. Example :
.
.
.

The issue is i don't trust Cakewalk to deliver new features on time.

If their new subscription model, which is predicated on them delivering new features on regular basis, fails to deliver any new features to anyone who has purchased 12 months by either subscription method, then their business will deservedly end that day.
So while it 'might' occur, then they'd have to be incredibly f**king business-suicidal to allow that to even have a marginal chance of possibility.
So on the same terms, Steinberg 'might' decide they're going to port Cubase to only run on NetBSD.

[xamido]

you keep referring to this scenario as if it were guaranteed to happen and the only possible scenario which things can follow. now think of this scenario: you bought the DAW, found a bug, developers acknowledged the bug, but it was fixed only in a next major version. what now?

You can upgrade to the next version and get all the new features too.

Compared to paying full upgrade price just for that minor fixes, with new feature that's promised yet you don't know whether cakewalk can deliver it on time.

[Burillo]

But this scenario might also occur. You subscribe during unfortunate time when they don't release any major updates. Example :

Cakewalk release major update in May 2015. Your subscription expired in June but that major update still have critical bug. They then release bug fixes in July, you're forced to upgrade just to get that bug fix.

And then your subscription ends next year without cakewalk actually delivering major update during your subscription period. Few weeks after it ended cakewalk announces new and major update.

This is a possible scenario. Sonar X1 was released in december 2010, Sonar X2 was released in september 2012.

It's great if cakewalk actively release new feature every few months, but it's also possible that there can be twelve month period without major updates or new features that justify the subscription price.

you keep missing the point. subscription is basically full version cost, spread out to 12 months. it's even reinforced in that they also allow purchasing full version straight away and get 12 months of support with that. so current version of Sonar is the justification for the subscription price. you're paying for your license in 12 installments. whatever you get on top of that, is just a bonus.

The issue is i don't trust Cakewalk to deliver new features on time.

on which "time"? do you have access to Cakewalk's internal schedules? do they make any promises regarding when this or that feature will be available?

[xamido]

If their new subscription model, which is predicated on them delivering new features on regular basis, fails to deliver any new features to anyone who has purchased 12 months by either subscription method, then their business will deservedly end that day.

I'll wait and see. For now i remain skeptical with cakewalk.

Sonar X3 is the worst DAW i've ever used. It crashes too often, for no reason too. And now they want user to pay subscription fee for bug fixes that only god knows when it will arrive.

[whyterabbyt]

you keep referring to this scenario as if it were guaranteed to happen and the only possible scenario which things can follow. now think of this scenario: you bought the DAW, found a bug, developers acknowledged the bug, but it was fixed only in a next major version. what now?

You can upgrade to the next version and get all the new features too.

Are you admitting that you're okay with buying a whole new version to get a minor bugfix? Or is that only if you know what extra features you'll get (irrespective of what they are).

[xamido]

Are you admitting that you're okay with buying a whole new version to get a minor bugfix? Or is that only if you know what extra features you'll get (irrespective of what they are).

Lesser of two evil. Doesn't mean they're fine. But one is a better approach definitely.

[She Changed Her Mind]

Sorry for being rude in general, I just am a little disappointed. As if the choice being independent as a customer regarded to anything which has to do with purchases in general is not affected -or not manipulated- by any sales construction in general by any company. On Mars perhaps. Sure. And Rome was built in a day, right? End of discussion afaiac.

[digitalboytn]

Cakewalk wanted to make more money and they figured out a way to do it. Maybe it would have gone over better if they told people that instead of all the smoke and mirrors that has some people confused.
Riley

This is going to be a defining moment for Cakewalk - that's for sure...

The pre Henry and the Gibson/Cakewalk policy decisions...

You knew that things were going to change when Henry took control of the ship

As this thread indicates,there is a great deal of confusion regarding this new policy and it will be very interesting to see how this pans out...

I have been a Cakewalk user since Pro Audio 9 and I use Sonar X3e Pro x64 daily and it's all good...

But I'll be standing back and watching as the crap hits the fan and making a decision after that crap dries

I'd be happy to use pre Henry Sonar X3e Pro x64 for quite some time if the new policy doesn't work for me

[Burillo]

also, i missed this little tidbit:

Cakewalk release major update in May 2015. Your subscription expired in June but that major update still have critical bug. They then release bug fixes in July, you're forced to upgrade just to get that bug fix.

And then your subscription ends next year without cakewalk actually delivering major update during your subscription period. Few weeks after it ended cakewalk announces new and major update.

did you not read what i wrote? with subscription model, there are no more major upgrades anymore. it's just Sonar, no "X4" or "X5" beside it. they even mention this in their FAQ. they don't roll out major updates any more. they roll out the features as they become ready, not when there are enough features ready to create a major upgrade. if X5 would have had vocal alignment features planned for it, you wouldn't get them after Cakewalk decides it's time to release X5 - you would get them as soon as they're ready. i repeat - there are no more major versions or major updates with this model any more. it's like Studio One (you get both fixes and new features), only without major version upgrades at all.

[xamido]

you keep missing the point. subscription is basically full version cost, spread out to 12 months. it's even reinforced in that they also allow purchasing full version straight away and get 12 months of support with that. so current version of Sonar is the justification for the subscription price. you're paying for your license in 12 installments. whatever you get on top of that, is just a bonus.

So you're okay with those short 12 month technical support? What if there's a problem that rise a few days after your subscription ended? It's okay for company to charge full upgrade price for the customer to receive technical support.

You're also okay with subscription just to get bug fixes updates?

Those extra feature during subscription sounds good, but they are all hypothetical until their actual release.

Everything with this new subscription method reeks of anti consumer for me. This policy only creates more situation where the customer are forced to subscribe.

[Rajah]

No mention of Alchemy 2. Pass.

Well, Could it be that, "Special Surprise"?


http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Up-Next#start

That would be a cherry on top of this brilliant update...

[Burillo]

So you're okay with those short 12 month technical support?

is it ever longer for Cakewalk under the old policy?

What if there's a problem that rise a few days after your subscription ended? It's okay for company to charge full upgrade price for the customer to receive technical support.

what if earth gets hit by asteroid? one can come up with lots of counter examples that cast a better light onto subscription model. for example, what if a feature you wanted, was developed and released during your subscription period? under old policy, you'd have to pay for a new version, with subscription you get it for free. see? i can play this game too. now can we stop with pointless hypotheticals?

You're also okay with subscription just to get bug fixes updates?

that's a misleading statement.

let's say you're being theoretical and assume that you will get your bug fixed with free minor updates. OK, but then let's be theoretical to the end, and assume that under subscription model, both bugs will be fixed and features will be added. so it seems to me that in theory, subscription model wins.

let's say we're being realistic. lots of bugs get fixed by major version releases only, some of them aren't fixed at all. nothing would change with the subscription model. so in practice neither model is better.

to summarize, subscription is theoretically better, and roughly equivalent in practice. again, your point?

Those extra feature during subscription sounds good, but they are all hypothetical until their actual release.

so are free minor updates under old model. your point? are you still oblivious to the fact that you get a current version of sonar by paying in 12 installments, and get free fixes and updates for a year since your subscription started? are you still going to pretend that what you're paying for is some promised future development, and assume that you're entitled to getting current version of Sonar for free?