Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership

[Burillo]

Here's the part that concerns me. Say I pay outright for a year now, just like I always did. Instead of holding new features back for the next big release, I'll get them throughout the year. Then, one year from now, I'll be expected to pay another $149. But for what? There won't be a big new release, because they won't have been holding back features. Maybe they'll announce one or two new things to coincide with the anniversary, but there just won't be the same incentive to pay for another year. Pay another $149 in hopes that they trickle out some features later on, not knowing what those features might be?

why do you assume you won't know what's coming? they have a page listing specifically what is coming up next.

also, membership renewal for Platinum is not $149, it's $199. as for incentive, well, there is incentive for Cakewalk to make it worth your while. if after 12 months you feel like you didn't get your money's worth, Cakewalk loses out. if, on the other hand, you feel like the flow of fixes and features has been steady, i guess it's an incentive enough to continue your membership.

[flugel45]

....
No, this only makes sense for this first year's initial launch. After that the whole scheme falls apart from a customer motivation perspective.

Not sure where your thinking is on this.

CW have made it clear there will be a constant flow of feature-releases. IOW, no matter when you re-up in CW's cycle, there will always be new features in the pipeline.


EDIT: Burillo beat me to it.

[lfm]

Here's the part that concerns me. Say I pay outright for a year now, just like I always did. Instead of holding new features back for the next big release, I'll get them throughout the year. Then, one year from now, I'll be expected to pay another $149. But for what? There won't be a big new release, because they won't have been holding back features. Maybe they'll announce one or two new things to coincide with the anniversary, but there just won't be the same incentive to pay for another year. Pay another $149 in hopes that they trickle out some features later on, not knowing what those features might be?

And don't forget that members can quit or join at any time, so it really isn't like everyone will be in sync with their one year memberships/annual upgrades. That destroys the incentive for CW to plan major releases or hold back features.

No, this only makes sense for this first year's initial launch. After that the whole scheme falls apart from a customer motivation perspective.

But Cake is not like Avid - Avid has a huge penalty for you if not constantly paying renewals - Cake has not.

If in a year you don't feel like paying another $149 upfront - then don't.
When features arrive that is of value to you - then re-enter and pay $149.

You loose support obviously, but if you value that - that is also what you pay for in your $149.

I see no downside, really. They also provide the future plans so you can make a decision to renew. It would be the no bugfixes either then as downside - but you cannot have everything for nothing - maintenance costs too. Bugfixes has only arrived in the first 4 months anyway from a release for Cake, as I remember it - so not much change there i real life.

But $149 is for Platinum - maybe look if Studio at $99 is enough. The general problem I see with buying the bling-bling versions is that they choose what you get - probably with a sense what might be of value - but still, they decide.

If you get the synths and plugins you need as 3rd party - you decide. Then go for simpler daw version that has basic features for workflow you need. Maybe you like ProChannel - otherwise go for Artist for $49 a year(you loose MTC sync, and ProChannel basically), and have $100 left over to buy the stuff that you actually want - not that Cake decide for you.

I don't get why so many go for the bling-bling stuff - even change daw because the other daw got some bling-bling they want.

[poonna]

Here's the part that concerns me. Say I pay outright for a year now, just like I always did. Instead of holding new features back for the next big release, I'll get them throughout the year. Then, one year from now, I'll be expected to pay another $149. But for what? There won't be a big new release, because they won't have been holding back features. Maybe they'll announce one or two new things to coincide with the anniversary, but there just won't be the same incentive to pay for another year. Pay another $149 in hopes that they trickle out some features later on, not knowing what those features might be?

And don't forget that members can quit or join at any time, so it really isn't like everyone will be in sync with their one year memberships/annual upgrades. That destroys the incentive for CW to plan major releases or hold back features.

No, this only makes sense for this first year's initial launch. After that the whole scheme falls apart from a customer motivation perspective.

Just as everyone said, you don't have to renew after your first year. You can just wait until they have released enough new features that you feel worth your upgrade then re-enter. That might be a few months or a year gap or so, but you'll get your money worth that way.

By the way, as the current plan goes, upgrade from X3 is $149, but subsequent renewal seems to be $199. I believe they will have sales from time to time though.

[BBFG#]

Seems it's getting circular again.
Which is perhaps the one thing I can trust from Sonar logic.

I would like to know if their sites and servers have been improved too.
(Without being victim to them if they really haven't.)
And wonder if all physical shipments of the core version of the DAW itself are now extinct.

[poonna]

And wonder if all physical shipments of the core version of the DAW itself are now extinct.

I believe they said they would provide DVDs for a nominal fee, but primary medium would be download.

[BBFG#]

And wonder if all physical shipments of the core version of the DAW itself are now extinct.

I believe they said they would provide DVDs for a nominal fee, but primary medium would be download.

That's good to know. The last two versions did not work properly when I downloaded them. Only the disks did what they were suppose to.

[excessional]

you misunderstood the model.

first of all, they do away with major releases completely. there are no more X3, X4, X5, whatever versions - it's just Sonar, continually developed. there are no "annual releases" or "new releases" as such. it's all one big release.

second of all, major release took 16 months, but not all features in that release took 16 months to implement. some was done early on and could have been released after 1 month. some was done at 5 month point, some - at 9 month, etc. it's just you had to wait for everything to be completed to get even something that was finished very early on.

third of all, "after the launch" of what? it's not like you're only allowed to subscribe on certain dates. so your 14 months would be different to everyone else's. if you're mentally stuck in a major release model, your argument does make sense, but there are no more major releases - it's just a continually updated rolling release.

I didn't misunderstand - but they are obviously going to have a huge spike in sales end Jan/early Feb as users switch up - so effectively their risk is that people don't pay after 12 months is up - i.e. their income will crash around Feb 2016. So how will they address that?


Assuming the thing is stable no-one needs 'support' as such - what we want is new features.
So if they have a great new feature ready for release in December 2015 when do you think they will release it? In December/January (giving it away to the users coming to the end of their 12 month cycle) or later, in say February/March (when anyone who wants it will have to renew/pay for another 12 months?). I know which route they'll pick...

So you will get a desert of new features at the end of a 12 month cycle - it won't be smooth and seamless at all. They might do final sign off bug-fixes in that period, but that new synth or killer feature - that is in the next 12 month cycle...

[BBFG#]

Support has been rather abysmal and useless IMO.
I've got more information and help from the forums than the company.

[poonna]

I didn't misunderstand - but they are obviously going to have a huge spike in sales end Jan/early Feb as users switch up - so effectively their risk is that people don't pay after 12 months is up - i.e. their income will crash around Feb 2016. So how will they address that?


Assuming the thing is stable no-one needs 'support' as such - what we want is new features.
So if they have a great new feature ready for release in December 2015 when do you think they will release it? In December/January (giving it away to the users coming to the end of their 12 month cycle) or later, in say February/March (when anyone who wants it will have to renew/pay for another 12 months?). I know which route they'll pick...

So you will get a desert of new features at the end of a 12 month cycle - it won't be smooth and seamless at all. They might do final sign off bug-fixes in that period, but that new synth or killer feature - that is in the next 12 month cycle...

While I do understand your point, I think in practice the spike will smooth out over time. This spike is caused by the transitory period between the old and the new model, but there will also be people joining after this period. At the end of the first 12 months of this new model, there will also be people who left and who decide to wait a while before rejoining. Eventually, the spike will probably not be significant anymore.

If I were them, I'd rather let it stabilizes that way than to keep the spike/surge going every 12 months. Having such an imaginary deadline is even worse for them than before. Now they will have to artificially hold things back and rush other things according to some certain cutoff date that cannot be relaxed. In the old model, they wouldn't have to face as much pressure to release at an exact certain date.

[flugel45]

... The last two versions did not work properly when I downloaded them. Only the disks did what they were suppose to.

Use a reliable download manager next time.

[BBFG#]

... The last two versions did not work properly when I downloaded them. Only the disks did what they were suppose to.

Use a reliable download manager next time.

I do, and the only common denominator between what consistently has the same errors each time and the companies that have none is Cakewalk. In trial and error I've noticed a repeated pattern with sound file errors that no other company has given me (not even DSF, with the same sets). Leads me to think CW does it on purpose. (and it is a regular problem I see others have on many forums too).
But as long as they can blame everything and anything else...

I like the software well enough. But the company support has been questionable all along.

[kbaccki]

they have a page listing specifically what is coming up next.

Oooh. A "special surprise"? I like surprises!!!

[flugel45]

... The last two versions did not work properly when I downloaded them. Only the disks did what they were suppose to.

Use a reliable download manager next time.

.... I've noticed a repeated pattern.... Leads me to think CW does it on purpose... .

Okey-doke.

[GeorgeZ]

Support has been rather abysmal and useless IMO.
I've got more information and help from the forums than the company.

I've found the same, on the forum anyway. Calling up on Skype usually sorts things in a jiffy (but being from the other side of the world, that can be a bit tricky with intl. times... sometimes).