Identifying Weird Chord

[willdub1]

Play the notes C-B-G on your keyboard. Does anyone know? Are there notes missing & how would you voice it in 4 or more voices? (if you had to include some extra notes what would they be?)

Patiently Waiting...

[nineofkings]

These three notes could be a great many implied chords, depending on context. What piece is this from? Otherwise, it could be a Cmaj7 (missing an E), a Gsus4 (played a weird way including the the third but missing the fifth [D]), an Em6 (again missing an E), etc. not enough information.

[ValliSoftware]

Play the notes C-B-G on your keyboard. Does anyone know? Are there notes missing & how would you voice it in 4 or more voices? (if you had to include some extra notes what would they be?)

Patiently Waiting...

Here's what I found for C, G and B
If you see two or more letters where it says "Key(s) =>", that's because it was found in two or more chords.
As an example, for maj11
C, G and B was found in Cmaj11 and Gmaj11

********************************************************
MIDI Track Name [miditrack_1]
NOTE ON Totals
[C] = [1]
[G] = [1]
= [1]

(Scale Interval in C )
0 2 4 5 7 10 Chord-11 Key(s) => G
[ 6n] C D E F G A#

0 1 4 8 10 Chord-7#5b9 Key(s) => B
[ 5n] C C# E G# A#

0 4 5 7 10 Chord-7add11 Key(s) => G
[ 5n] C E F G A#

0 1 4 7 8 10 Chord-7b9b13 Key(s) => B
[ 6n] C C# E G G# A#

0 2 4 6 7 10 Chord-9#11 Key(s) => F
[ 6n] C D E F# G A#

0 2 3 5 7 10 Chord-m11 Key(s) => A
[ 6n] C D D# F G A#

0 2 3 7 9 10 Chord-m13 Key(s) => A
[ 6n] C D D# G A A#

0 2 3 7 10 Chord-m9 Key(s) => A
[ 5n] C D D# G A#

0 2 4 5 7 11 Chord-maj11 Key(s) => C G
[ 6n] C D E F G B

0 2 4 7 9 11 Chord-maj13 Key(s) => C
[ 6n] C D E G A B

0 4 7 11 Chord-maj7 Key(s) => C
[ 4n] C E G B

0 4 5 7 11 Chord-maj7add11 Key(s) => C G
[ 5n] C E F G B

0 4 7 9 11 Chord-maj7add13 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C E G A B

0 5 7 11 Chord-maj7sus4 Key(s) => C
[ 4n] C F G B

0 2 4 7 11 Chord-maj9 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D E G B

0 2 5 7 11 Chord-maj9sus4 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D F G B

0 2 3 5 7 11 Chord-mmaj11 Key(s) => C
[ 6n] C D D# F G B

0 2 3 7 9 11 Chord-mmaj13 Key(s) => C
[ 6n] C D D# G A B

0 3 7 11 Chord-mmaj7 Key(s) => C
[ 4n] C D# G B

0 3 5 7 11 Chord-mmaj7add11 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D# F G B

0 3 7 9 11 Chord-mmaj7add13 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D# G A B

0 2 3 7 11 Chord-mmaj9 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D D# G B

[willdub1]

These three notes could be a great many implied chords, depending on context. What piece is this from? Otherwise, it could be a Cmaj7 (missing an E), a Gsus4 (played a weird way including the the third but missing the fifth [D]), an Em6 (again missing an E), etc. not enough information.

Thanks for the info nineofkings.. The key is CMaj by the way. And I guess you're right it would be a CMaj7 but wouldn't a major 7th chord voiced without the third be an extended chord? If so would the same principles applied to chord progressions using triads be used to implement these "weird chords" in your music? If not, how are they usually treated & when are they used?

[willdub1]

Play the notes C-B-G on your keyboard. Does anyone know? Are there notes missing & how would you voice it in 4 or more voices? (if you had to include some extra notes what would they be?)

Patiently Waiting...

Here's what I found for C, G and B
If you see two or more letters where it says "Key(s) =>", that's because it was found in two or more chords.
As an example, for maj11
C, G and B was found in Cmaj11 and Gmaj11

********************************************************
MIDI Track Name [miditrack_1]
NOTE ON Totals
[C] = [1]
[G] = [1]
= [1]

(Scale Interval in C )
0 2 4 5 7 10 Chord-11 Key(s) => G
[ 6n] C D E F G A#

0 1 4 8 10 Chord-7#5b9 Key(s) => B
[ 5n] C C# E G# A#

0 4 5 7 10 Chord-7add11 Key(s) => G
[ 5n] C E F G A#

0 1 4 7 8 10 Chord-7b9b13 Key(s) => B
[ 6n] C C# E G G# A#

0 2 4 6 7 10 Chord-9#11 Key(s) => F
[ 6n] C D E F# G A#

0 2 3 5 7 10 Chord-m11 Key(s) => A
[ 6n] C D D# F G A#

0 2 3 7 9 10 Chord-m13 Key(s) => A
[ 6n] C D D# G A A#

0 2 3 7 10 Chord-m9 Key(s) => A
[ 5n] C D D# G A#

0 2 4 5 7 11 Chord-maj11 Key(s) => C G
[ 6n] C D E F G B

0 2 4 7 9 11 Chord-maj13 Key(s) => C
[ 6n] C D E G A B

0 4 7 11 Chord-maj7 Key(s) => C
[ 4n] C E G B

0 4 5 7 11 Chord-maj7add11 Key(s) => C G
[ 5n] C E F G B

0 4 7 9 11 Chord-maj7add13 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C E G A B

0 5 7 11 Chord-maj7sus4 Key(s) => C
[ 4n] C F G B

0 2 4 7 11 Chord-maj9 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D E G B

0 2 5 7 11 Chord-maj9sus4 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D F G B

0 2 3 5 7 11 Chord-mmaj11 Key(s) => C
[ 6n] C D D# F G B

0 2 3 7 9 11 Chord-mmaj13 Key(s) => C
[ 6n] C D D# G A B

0 3 7 11 Chord-mmaj7 Key(s) => C
[ 4n] C D# G B

0 3 5 7 11 Chord-mmaj7add11 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D# F G B

0 3 7 9 11 Chord-mmaj7add13 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D# G A B

0 2 3 7 11 Chord-mmaj9 Key(s) => C
[ 5n] C D D# G B

Thanks for the detailed explanation ValliSoftware. It answers a lot of questions and encourages further studying.. I've noticed that its common to use these types of chords along with other standard triads and their inversions when writing music. I'm wondering if there is a certain logic behind using extended chords voiced in as many as 3 or 4 voices. The knowledge i have regarding chord progressions only stretches as far as triads & 7ths. Have you ever hit this plateau in your musical studies? Are there certain textbooks you would recommend?

[topaz]

to not overcomplicate and write CMaj7 (no 3rd) would be simpler.

[nineofkings]

to not overcomplicate and write CMaj7 (no 3rd) would be simpler.

This is perfectly valid. There is a unique property, though: if a chord is missing its third, it could possibly be either minor or major. It's ambiguous. Even with a major seventh, the third could still be minor, making it Cm(Maj7). Think James Bond.

So if you wanted to use this ambiguity, to give an enigmatic sound or for a key change, that's something to consider.

[willdub1]

to not overcomplicate and write CMaj7 (no 3rd) would be simpler.

I guess I could do that. But then I would be composing music on a "if it sounds good its good" mentality. Right now I prefer to understand the logic behind using it. When? Where? Why?...

[nineofkings]

I guess I could do that. But then I would be composing music on a "if it sounds good its good" mentality. Right now I prefer to understand the logic behind using it. When? Where? Why?...

Not necessarily. If the chord, in context, is CMaj7, then that's what it is. You would know what it is in relation to the rest of the composition. Chords are about relationships to the whole as much as they are about the actual notes.

[willdub1]

I guess I could do that. But then I would be composing music on a "if it sounds good its good" mentality. Right now I prefer to understand the logic behind using it. When? Where? Why?...

Not necessarily. If the chord, in context, is CMaj7, then that's what it is. You would know what it is in relation to the rest of the composition. Chords are about relationships to the whole as much as they are about the actual notes.

Yes it is a Maj7. That much is solved. But I'm wondering if there is a certain logic behind composing with extended chords voiced in 3 or 4 voices. Does it take on the same approach as constructing chord progressions with triads or is it a different ball game all together? This much has me curious.

[sjm]

These three notes could be a great many implied chords, depending on context. What piece is this from? Otherwise, it could be a Cmaj7 (missing an E), a Gsus4 (played a weird way including the the third (b) but missing the fifth (D)), an Em6 (again missing an E), etc. not enough information.

Just a couple of issues here:
CMaj7: Yes, missing the E, this is probably what I'd call it
Gsus4: No, Gsus4 is made up of G C D; otherwise it isn't a Gsus4 but something else
Em6: No, that would be E G B C#; it does have a flattened sixth, but I highly doubt it's an E minor chord if the root is missing, so I'd take CMaj7 over Emb6 any day (given they are the same notes, C is the lowest note in the voicing and the C-G is strongly indicative of a C chord).

Depending on why you need a name for the chord, you have a variety of options. If this is so you can make a personal note of what you're playing, it doesn't really matter what you call it, as long as it's clear. "CMaj7 (no 3rd)" is an easy way to do that and make sure you remember that the E isn't voiced.

If this is just to sketch out the rough progression of a song for a band, you might want to call it a CMaj7, give other instruments the option to voice the E. Not every note needs to be voiced on a single instrument. The question here is if you want to "allow" the E or not.

It could even be an extended chord such as a G11 (G B D F A C) - again, depends on what you want the other instruments to do whether that makes sense or not. You're unlikely to play all those notes at once but in context the G11 may make sense.

[willdub1]

These three notes could be a great many implied chords, depending on context. What piece is this from? Otherwise, it could be a Cmaj7 (missing an E), a Gsus4 (played a weird way including the the third (b) but missing the fifth (D)), an Em6 (again missing an E), etc. not enough information.

Just a couple of issues here:
CMaj7: Yes, missing the E, this is probably what I'd call it
Gsus4: No, Gsus4 is made up of G C D; otherwise it isn't a Gsus4 but something else
Em6: No, that would be E G B C#; it does have a flattened sixth, but I highly doubt it's an E minor chord if the root is missing, so I'd take CMaj7 over Emb6 any day (given they are the same notes, C is the lowest note in the voicing and the C-G is strongly indicative of a C chord).

Depending on why you need a name for the chord, you have a variety of options. If this is so you can make a personal note of what you're playing, it doesn't really matter what you call it, as long as it's clear. "CMaj7 (no 3rd)" is an easy way to do that and make sure you remember that the E isn't voiced.

If this is just to sketch out the rough progression of a song for a band, you might want to call it a CMaj7, give other instruments the option to voice the E. Not every note needs to be voiced on a single instrument. The question here is if you want to "allow" the E or not.

It could even be an extended chord such as a G11 (G B D F A C) - again, depends on what you want the other instruments to do whether that makes sense or not. You're unlikely to play all those notes at once but in context the G11 may make sense.

Thanks for the reply. Though the chord I mentioned was meant to be voiced in that exact position C-B-G. I'm just curious to know if there is any logic to constructing chord progressions using such chords or is it all trial & error and implementing them wherever it sounds good in a standard chord progression

[sjm]

The very quick reply is that you can easily substitute related chords in tried and tested progressions. Say you have C G Am F - a pretty bogstandard chord progression that crops up all over the place in pop music. You can easily substitute, say, the G for an Em, becuase the two chords are closely related, or you could even go with an Em7 (E G B D, the same notes as G6) with the emphasisis on the E to bring out the quality of E minor rather than G major. Change the C to a Cadd9 (C E G D); change the Am to an Am7 (A C E G)- suddenly you have Cadd9 Em7 Am7 F. Maybe you want to keep emphasising the D common to the Cadd9 and Em7: change the Am7 to an A7sus4 (A D E G) and the F to an F6 (F A C D).

You can obviously take this a lot further. A lot of chord progression are really just variations on each other with chords being extended or substituted, e.g. C Am F G can easily become C Am D7 G - substituting a D chord for an F is no biggie (relative minors, simlar chords) but instead of D minor you go D major (seventh) for a little added nuance and interest (Dm7 is obviously also an option, it's essentially the same notes as an F6, but with the D as root instead).

So there can be a certain amount of logic. However I don't see much point in writing a song based purely on logic - you should be able to hear how the song is meant to sound in your head, and that's what you're looking for in the chords. Knowing standard progressions and how different chords sound can simply make it a lot easier to get the right chord off the bat or to help you experiment with variations to see what sounds good given a basis to work with.

[willdub1]

The very quick reply is that you can easily substitute related chords in tried and tested progressions. Say you have C G Am F - a pretty bogstandard chord progression that crops up all over the place in pop music. You can easily substitute, say, the G for an Em, becuase the two chords are closely related, or you could even go with an Em7 (E G B D, the same notes as G6) with the emphasisis on the E to bring out the quality of E minor rather than G major. Change the C to a Cadd9 (C E G D); change the Am to an Am7 (A C E G)- suddenly you have Cadd9 Em7 Am7 F. Maybe you want to keep emphasising the D common to the Cadd9 and Em7: change the Am7 to an A7sus4 (A D E G) and the F to an F6 (F A C D).

You can obviously take this a lot further. A lot of chord progression are really just variations on each other with chords being extended or substituted, e.g. C Am F G can easily become C Am D7 G - substituting a D chord for an F is no biggie (relative minors, simlar chords) but instead of D minor you go D major (seventh) for a little added nuance and interest (Dm7 is obviously also an option, it's essentially the same notes as an F6, but with the D as root instead).

So there can be a certain amount of logic. However I don't see much point in writing a song based purely on logic - you should be able to hear how the song is meant to sound in your head, and that's what you're looking for in the chords. Knowing standard progressions and how different chords sound can simply make it a lot easier to get the right chord off the bat or to help you experiment with variations to see what sounds good given a basis to work with.

Thanks. I guess the reason I'm sticking with logic at the moment is because maybe I ought to know how the tools work before I start using them. That certain sound of emotional expression may not exist in my head yet

[ImNotDedYet]

In jazz, you'll see all kinds of chords missing notes, although typically it's the 5th, not the 3rd, but in many cases you'll then see the melody line playing the missing notes.

So, in this scenario, you might see the melody or a backing musical element playing the missing note(s).