Focusrite ports RED 2 and 3 modules (without Dave Gamble?)

[hibidy]

Nothing worked here.

[chokehold]

I have both those Focusrite Scarlett plugins as well as the Midnight suite, so I just had to give the Red Series demo a spin.

Both the Red EQ and Red Compressor null 100% when phase reversed against their Midnight EQ/Compressor counterparts.

Have identical audio on two tracks, phase reverse one. Silence.
Put Red EQ/Comp on one track and Midnight EQ/Comp on other. Silence.

They have an identical set of parameters and identical value ranges.
If I dial the parameters to their extremes, they'll cancel each other out down to total silence.
There seem to be differences in the scaling, so in-between values might not null perfectly.

In other words: the Red Series is the Midnight Series.
Nothing else.

$299 for a set of plugins I already own?
Huge disappointment, Focusrite.

EDIT: If it weren't for those parameter scaling differences, I'm sure one could null the Scarlett plugins against the others as well. I can get the Midnight and Scarlett EQs really darn close.

[Kang]

I hate to say it, but you appear to be correct. Nice detective work. With the exact same settings between the compressors they sound identical to me, and like you said it's not hard to get exact settings because they have the exact same controls. Did they expect no one to notice? More reason to support the indie guys.

[antithesist]

Wow... thanks for thinking of even trying that, and doing it chokehold!

I think that's the same with the Scarlett plug-ins and the older generic Focusrite suite... just new GUIs.

They do and did like to talk a lot about their virtual VU meters, which are pretty nice... maybe because those and the re-skin are all that's new.

Now, I wonder if maybe Midnight/Red are the d2/d3 code with and added mix for parallel, etc.

They're also making a big deal about Red being AAX... might have to get it just for that here.

Those guys!

[beltrom]

Having the Saffire 40 for me this was a nice bonus, never used the series I got with the interface being 32 bit and having so small GUI's.

[DaveGamble]

FYI, to the best of my knowledge, the Scarlett range is based on the Saffire DSP.

Now, when I did the Saffire range, we had different design objectives somewhat (to Forte Suite). There was a focus on usability for tracking, and also ultra ultra low CPU usage. So you won't manage to null the Saffires against the Forte stuff, because they actually are slightly different. Hopefully the differences are subtle (with the EQ particularly), but the Forte stuff will definitely edge it. With the compressors, well, they're pretty different as it goes. Changes to sidechain structure and that. The premise was still to try and retain some Focusrite sound, but if you phase cancel them, you can expect to hear bits bobbing in and out, because the attack/release shapes and knee shapes are different.

Dave.

[DaveGamble]

Now, I wonder if maybe Midnight/Red are the d2/d3 code with and added mix for parallel, etc.

You mean forte suite. d2/d3 was Paul Neyrinck at Digi, not me at Focusrite.

[Ultrasonic]

Does 8i6 Qualify for the free versions? The 6i6 does, but I don't see
the 6i6 listed. I can't find anything about these on the site.

If you have a 2i2o and have the scarlett plugins it should qualify you for the bundle.
Im not saying that its probable that it does. Im say it ought to.

Some of the attraction to the interface and a big marketing tool, were the plugins, and now saying you arent eligible for the new plugins is total BS in my opinion.

I know there are a ton of "smaller interface users" out there, but to cut those people out after they have supported you company is REALLY petty and bad biz in my eyes.

[Compyfox]

Both the Red EQ and Red Compressor null 100% when phase reversed against their Midnight EQ/Compressor counterparts.

Well - this is surprising. Considering that the EQ's are at least ISA110 (Midnight) and ISA215 (RED EQ), you should be able to measure differences and "100% nulling" shouldn't be possible.

Same with the compressors - even though both are based upon the ISA130, the differences should be in the details (see Dave's post).


The one main thing that always bothered me with the Midnight suite, was the lack of sidechain capability (don't know off hand if the ISA130 even had a sidechain module). I know that the RED hardware had sidechain connectivity (unless my eyes were really borked and I imagined things). So I am wondering if the "recent" creation (I won't say new at this point) does have that?


I don't think that the d2/d3 code by Paul Neyrinck was being "reused" for the "Saffire DSP" (later Scarlett plugin suite - which are, confirmed by Dave, "heavily optimized" plugin recreations) or the Midnight Suite (up until this point, the closest clones of the ISA110/130). Only Dave can clear that particular question.

And I really, really have to do tests myself myself (Aiynzahev, the demo should be available here).

But if the "nulling" is really happening (especially with the so far praised RED3 compressor, and Nulling is really hard to pull of with comps!), or the filter courves being 1:1 the same... then yes, I agree that 299USD are definitely more than bold.



Which is why I give the ball to bmanic at this point - he's more knowledgeable in terms of (testing) compressors than I am.

[DaveGamble]

Here's what I believe the DSP lineage might be.

Paul Neyrinck: d2/d3
Me: Forte Suite (110,130)
Me: Saffire EQ&Comp (redesign for Saffire, based very roughly on Forte, also includes Reverb by Nick Dowell)

After this, I went to Sonalksis. So everything after this is just what I've been told.

Fairly sure about this:
Scarlett Suite based on Saffire range (also adds gate by Chris Huggett/William Kentish)

The following is entirely speculation, unverified:
Midnight Suite based on Forte
Red based on Forte

[DeBro]

I have a Scarlett 2i2 and was able to download, install and activate without any hassle. I did a parallel processing configuration on a synth bass in a project using the Red 3 compressor. I sent a pre-send signal to a buss and use SlickEQ to roll off the low-end at 320hz. Then use Red 3 to heavily compress the signal with a slow attack and fast release. Added this signal in parallel to the original to taste which gave the synth bass more bite and sat well in the mix.

[Ultrasonic]

I have a Scarlett 2i2 and was able to download, install and activate without any hassle. I did a parallel processing configuration on a synth bass in a project using the Red 3 compressor. I sent a pre-send signal to a buss and use SlickEQ to roll off the low-end at 320hz. Then use Red 3 to heavily compress the signal with a slow attack and fast release. Added this signal in parallel to the original to taste which gave the synth bass more bite and sat well in the mix.

Im not a smart man, but usually not lazy either. After3 1/2 seconds of checking heres what i found on the focusrite site.

Registered Scarlett (Solo, 2i2, 2i4, 6i6,18i8, 18i20, Studio, Solo Studio Pack) customers can now download the Red 2 & Red 3 Plug-In Suite in addition to the Scarlett Plug-In Suite.

[Compyfox]

The following is entirely speculation, unverified:
Midnight Suite based on Forte
Red based on Forte

Would definitely clear the nulling part that chokehold is reporting.

Then rolling eyes at the price are even more adjusted and everything outside the "bundled with hardware deal" is some sort of a skin game.

YMMV of course.

[Ultrasonic]

So i checked these out. Im not even sure what the point is releasing them. If they are trying to sell this single EQ and single compressor for $299? NOBODY will be going out of their way to buy them. They look cheap and are really no different sounding than the scarlett series.

The one poster said that this compressor is right up there with the glue. Not only are these two compressors (glue&red3) designed to handle different tasks, but this red 3 compressor is a complete waste of time, and if it were anything other than free, money as well.

EDIT; These things are even cheezier looking than the Scarlett series.

[chokehold]

Well, while I did point out that the Red compressor nulls perfectly with the Midnight compressor, I maybe should have also pointed out that I quite like the Midnight compressor. It's maybe not a very versatile tool and not a "mojo" processor, but it does perform nicely. Not my go-to compressor, but one or two instances always find their way into my projects, so I really have nothing against what's "inside" the Red compressor.

Not worth $299 (imho) but definitely worth using if you get it bundled with your interface or maybe in some sale.

It's more the "hey, here's something entirely new, pay 300 bucks for it" liar attitude that bothers me.