KVR Audio

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:09 pm

i think you can compare those 2 as far what i saw atm?

a german video presents nave a bit more

not the best demonstration so far but im wondering how those 2 plugins compare to each other (maybe asked the ipad people, i dont have an ipad as i hate apple policies

).

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:21 pm

IMO Nave is a very limited wavetable synth compared to Serum. Only because of the sounds (yes in mono and over Skype) I don't like it.

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:29 pm

4damind wrote:IMO Nave is a very limited wavetable synth compared to Serum. Only because of the sounds (yes in mono and over Skype) I don't like it.

i got that feeling as well, sure this skype demonstration isnt well to compare at all!, so i dunno the specialty of this plugin yet why it could compete SERUM. i dont own either of those!

KBSoundSmith · Post by **KBSoundSmith** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:38 pm

Hmm, well I bought a license for Serum, so part of me is going to be biased toward that naturally--I bought it for a reason.

That said, I just don't know enough about Nave to make a fair comparison, and I never base my opinion on videos, I want the demo. Impossible to judge sound quality through low-quality audio on videos, on over-produced and over-processed sounds. I want the raw sound from the demo, I want to experience the workflow, I want to know if the instrument resonates with me.

I will say that Nave looks interesting enough to demo, but it really has to offer something unique for me to get an additional wavetable synth--honestly, atm, I'm more disposed toward saving for a new computer so I can reasonably run 2cAudio's KS, I KNOW I want to buy that, but my computer is too slow for it to be practical right now. Can't buy everything.

FarleyCZ · Post by **FarleyCZ** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:49 pm

Serum all the way. It seems like there is only a wavetable import inside. Serum has totally bada*s editor when you can create fully functional wavetables. Nuff said.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:21 pm

Imo if two synths have to be compared, its globally. Meaning that everything in a synth is important : Oscillators, EVs, Filters, WaveTables and their editing in the case of a wavetable synth ( and Nave has some editing ) , features, and all those multiple details that lead in the end to a *specific* -or less- sound

All in all, I would not say Nave lacks anything in this global 'sound' department. This video doesnt show the sound of Nave, just because it can't ( skype, mono, barely music playing etc, and nor is it its purpose. Its therefore a bit useless to base any comparisons on it.

MillerSam · Post by **MillerSam** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:23 pm

As Beta Tester, I can say Nave is different than Serum.
Serum goes more in the product range Massive from NI with deeper manipulation than Massive.
But Nave is is another approach of Wavetable Synthesis

The Spectrum Feature is something different than Serum and I think you get this maybe for me "cold" Waldorf Sound from Nave perfectly and for Serum not. You must demo both and take your decision. Their are difference in sounding

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:31 pm

Nave is very different to Serum indeed.

It sounds EXCELLENT. Very in your face and clear. Different from Serum, yet still excellent.

Robmobius · Post by **Robmobius** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:37 pm

Seems to be a fair thump out of the low end for Nave. I was impressed with the bass that I heard.

I don't know all that much about it. So I can't make an informed decision (plus the samples are lo-fi). I have Serum (which is class). But I'll definitely demo it.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:41 pm

Oh and CPU usage on Nave is great too. Serum is way too ridiculous, Nave is easy cruising. That doesn't mean that Nave sounds worse - probably just means that Rolf has some more tricks up his math sleeve compared to Steve Duda (no disrespect to Steve).

MillerSam · Post by **MillerSam** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:42 pm

Indeed
Running Nave with an I7 2.8 Ghz with 8 GB and I'm at 5% in Ableton Live 64 Bit
It's very CPU friendly

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:57 pm

I alraedy mentioned that in another thread but the Nave iOS version was published in 2013 so all those new wavetable synths published last year in parts are inspired by Nave and not the other way around.
Besides that Nave is not intended to be a replacment for any other synths, it's a great synth on it's own.

Actually this discussion only really makes real sense (if it does at all..) after the final version and a demo version of Nave are available. Nave is still in Beta and what is shown in the video is the current stage.
I had made some suggestions/requests for the Wavetable editor don''t know how far those will be implemented.
Anyway also at the current stage the synth is already very powerful IMO and CPU use is indeed very low.

Als oas teh video as in german I added some comments on the video in the other related thread here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &start=120

As someone asked in the Serum thread i also gave some comments there:

Ingonator wrote:
Spitfire31 wrote:Not trying for a moment to derail this Serum trail (perish the thought!) – but I did notice that Waldorf is going to launch its iOS Nave in a VST/AU/RTAS version (http://www.waldorf-music.info/nave-vst-au-rtas).

Nave (which I don't have any personal experience of at all) seems to share some basic traits with Serum (which I do own a license for).

Does anybody know how the two would compare? Straight competitors or occupying neighbouring boxes in the same stable?

/Joachim
First of all Nave for iOS was released in 2013 so it is not a "copy" of the several wavetable synths released in 2014 (including Serum).

Like e.g. Serum, PPG Wavemapper 2 and Codex it could import WAV files.

Some differences:
- The VA oscillator is a 3rd oscillator besides the two wavetable oscilators
- The VA oscillator offers the Überwave feature that could for example emulate a Roland like Supersaw quite nicely but also works with the other VA waveforms (addionally there is a global Unisoon for all oscillators)
- In the mixer you could add Ringmod of both wavetable OScs and/or a wavetable and the VA Osc
- Nave includes a Speech synth that cretes a new wavetable based on typed text
- The 3D display is not ther for just showing the wavetable but you could actually edit a wavetable inside a 3D display (when switched to the partials display) which AFAIK is not possible with any other wavetavble synth (it is possible that the editing features will be improved with the new plugin version)
- You got a big collection of Waldorf wavetables that are not included with-non-Waldorf synths like e.g. Serum
- wavetable scanning could be done either with the built-in Travel feature (in the Osc section) or using other modulations (envelope, LFO)
- with the "Spectrum" feature and the Brilliance + Noisy knobs (in both wavetable Oscs) you could change the harmonic content of an existing wavetable (parameters could be modulated)
- Nave has an Arpeggiator
- The new PC/Mac plugin version has a much lower CPU use than Serum, even with the Überwave and Unison used

- Nave so far does not include a MSEG
- you could not create wavetables from loading multiple single waveforms from WAV files
- you could not play samples like with the Noise Osc in Serum (but you could import a sample as a wavetable)
- Serum has a bigger amount of filter modes (while i like how those Waldorf filters sound...)

As the Nave iOS version was developed before Serum (and most of the other new wavetable synths) it is not intended to be a direct replacement but an own approach. It is intended to be a modern version of the Waldorf Wave synth which is from where the name comes (Nave = New Wave).

Last but not least it just sounds different, like most wavetable synth have a different basic sound IMO (there are even differences along the Waldorf softysnths IMO).

MorpherX · Post by **MorpherX** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:14 pm

Nave has no chance against Serum, neither featurewhise nore soundwhise, it's even is not worth to mention it, and beside this Nave is dongle-ware.
I would advise not to buy Nave but serum, if someone should decide about the two.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:17 pm

MorpherX wrote:Nave has no chance against Serum, neither featurewhise nore soundwhise, it's even is not worth to mention it, and beside this Nave is dongle-ware.
I would advise not to buy Nave but serum, if someone should decide about the two.

Somebody should stop talking out of his ass without even trying the product.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:18 pm

MorpherX wrote:Nave has no chance against Serum, neither featurewhise nore soundwhise, it's even is not worth to mention it, and beside this Nave is dongle-ware.
I would advise not to buy Nave but serum, if someone should decide about the two.

The Beta of Nave is still running and there is a NDA so i would not be allowed to proof the opposite by e.g. posting audio demos yet...
Currently i could only really discuss what was already published in the public (at the Walodrf website, at Twitter or in the videos)

Anyway we already had a similar discussion while PPG Wavemapper 2 was released and you ractions there were as aggressive as you current post here.
That you mentuion that Nave is "not worth to mention" shows that that you have no clue about it IMO.

Ingo

Serum vs. Nave?