patchpool

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:50 am

mandolarian wrote:That's not fair, Simon! Why do we have to use our ears to make our own minds up? Thought KVR's main purpose to being here is so we don't have to.

Because I am not the forum parrot who constantly repeats himself praising various instruments nobody wants to hear about, no wait I am the forum parrot doing that, no I'm not, yes I am, no I'm not - HALion, Lora, MachFive, HALion, Lora, MachFive arggggghhhh

mandolarian · Post by **mandolarian** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:47 am

Well...that settles it. It's MachFive: Talk Like a Parrot Edition.

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:18 am

HALion is what will settle it!

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:03 am

Both of them probably, as it is now...or non of them and only music for drowned recorder lute and soprano parrot.

Unfocused · Post by **Unfocused** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:26 am

So, between Mach5 And HALion, which:

-Generally, is easier for you to work with (i.e. modulation most like Alchemy, or better), and;
-Specifically, gives you better results/more control over granular synthesis? Are the results comparable to Alchemy or better? How do they compare to something like The Mangle?

-u

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:49 am

Unfocused wrote:So, between Mach5 And HALion, which:

-Generally, is easier for you to work with (i.e. modulation most like Alchemy, or better), and;
-Specifically, gives you better results/more control over granular synthesis? Are the results comparable to Alchemy or better? How do they compare to something like The Mangle?

-u

Definitely MachFive in respect of a complex modulation system with as many modulators as I want (LFOs, MSEGs, Envelopes, etc.), very good filters, many filter types, great FX and plenty of synth engines to choose from, plus user scriptable interfaces, in the last library I did for it, I got my scripter Iain Morland to invent a snapshot system for it, with 5 user-definable snapshots and 5 “factory“-snaps (me being the factory) per scripted patch.

HALion still sticks to the old school mod matrix, it could do with more, better sounding filters, it currently only has 2 polyphonic LFOs (and as many monophonic LFOs as you like), exporting user libraries in HALion currently is a total PITA due to the vst-container-system, Steinberg promotes, but I'm sure this will be improved in the future. But as a sampler/sample player HALion is very advanced, it even offers more features then Kontakt.

Both in M5 and HALion5 the granular engines are much more advanced than Alchemy's, but HALion 5 totally wins the race in this department with many in depth controls and grain shapes, and it has the most fluid and organic sounding granular engine around IMHO, due to the parallel grainstream technology they are using, they just got it right. But I'm sure we will see more evolution in MachFive's granular department too.

That was the short answer to your question.

Unfocused · Post by **Unfocused** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:58 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:That was the short answer to your question.

And a fine answer it was...

Thanks for the quick and reasonable reply, Simon. I too, mourn the loss of Alchemy--it is my favorite instrument and I will be using it as long as I can. I am keeping eyes open for replacements though. I'll be watching this thread closely.

-u

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:50 am

Simon,

Thanks for this and other threads and posts on similar topics. You will save me a lot of time.

I pretty much eliminated Omnisphere 2 as a contender to replace Alchemy. My quest is not necessarily to replace Alchemy but to find a tool to help me create ambient, space, new age, jazzy classical thick analog symphonic music.

I am currently and at least for another month in the Photoshop mode making very little music style. So now I am making plans for March and April to start a new phase and using new DAW and VST’s.

I like Absynth and am getting better at using it. I am hoping that V6 will be out soon. Dreaming! One more thing, I love using audio samples so any VST must use my samples as the sound source.

There is no hope that Kontakt 6 will end up being a useful to me to me as MachFive 3. Perhaps you or someone can steer me in the direction of third party instrument to use in Kontakt 5 that might help my music making style. Or perhaps at present abandon Kontakt 5 for this purpose and use Absynth. A bit confused what else to use of the Komplete 8 arsenal if I do not get MachFive.

Not much interested in Granular as I have not had great results. I have Padshop Pro so Halion 5 is not important to me for it’s granular engine. Yes you stated that the Halion granular synthesis is far superior to Padshop so perhaps I should at least check it out. But in any case for me it cannot be both Machfive and Halion. From what I gather from your comments MachFive is that way to go. The inexpensive The Mangle may fill in for the absence Halion.

Looking for comments from all.

secretkillerofnames · Post by **secretkillerofnames** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:15 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:
mandolarian wrote:That's not fair, Simon! Why do we have to use our ears to make our own minds up? Thought KVR's main purpose to being here is so we don't have to.
Because I am not the forum parrot who constantly repeats himself praising various instruments nobody wants to hear about, no wait I am the forum parrot doing that, no I'm not, yes I am, no I'm not - HALion, Lora, MachFive, HALion, Lora, MachFive arggggghhhh

What's Lora? Is it on Linux?

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:23 am

secretkillerofnames wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:
mandolarian wrote:That's not fair, Simon! Why do we have to use our ears to make our own minds up? Thought KVR's main purpose to being here is so we don't have to.
Because I am not the forum parrot who constantly repeats himself praising various instruments nobody wants to hear about, no wait I am the forum parrot doing that, no I'm not, yes I am, no I'm not - HALion, Lora, MachFive, HALion, Lora, MachFive arggggghhhh

What's Lora? Is it on Linux?

No, it's my alter ego parrot name.

secretkillerofnames · Post by **secretkillerofnames** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:26 am

OK. Thought it was an acronym for Likeable Original Replacement (for) Alchemy

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:32 am

Kalamata Kid wrote:Simon,

Thanks for this and other threads and posts on similar topics. You will save me a lot of time.

I pretty much eliminated Omnisphere 2 as a contender to replace Alchemy. My quest is not necessarily to replace Alchemy but to find a tool to help me create ambient, space, new age, jazzy classical thick analog symphonic music.

I am currently and at least for another month in the Photoshop mode making very little music style. So now I am making plans for March and April to start a new phase and using new DAW and VST’s.

I like Absynth and am getting better at using it. I am hoping that V6 will be out soon. Dreaming! One more thing, I love using audio samples so any VST must use my samples as the sound source.

There is no hope that Kontakt 6 will end up being a useful to me to me as MachFive 3. Perhaps you or someone can steer me in the direction of third party instrument to use in Kontakt 5 that might help my music making style. Or perhaps at present abandon Kontakt 5 for this purpose and use Absynth. A bit confused what else to use of the Komplete 8 arsenal if I do not get MachFive.

Not much interested in Granular as I have not had great results. I have Padshop Pro so Halion 5 is not important to me for it’s granular engine. Yes you stated that the Halion granular synthesis is far superior to Padshop so perhaps I should at least check it out. But in any case for me it cannot be both Machfive and Halion. From what I gather from your comments MachFive is that way to go. The inexpensive The Mangle may fill in for the absence Halion.

Looking for comments from all.

I used to be an Absynth disciple, created hundreds of patches for it, also for NI and my own subscription website absynthsounds.com, but when time and technology moves on and an instrument doesn't follow, I have to finally abandon it as I want to be at the top of technology soundwise, not behind it.
Sure, Absynth can do some nice things no other synth can do, but it's granular engine is just so dated and basic and the oscillators and filters sound somewhat ancient to my ears today.

Kontakt - well, one of the most advances sample players we have, since version 5 the TM Pro-mode even delivers very good stretching results, it has some decent filters, I find most of the FX mediocre and the modulation system very basic, but for scripted instruments it's great and the various High Quality modes really produce excellent sonic results, especially when extremely transposing samples down (aliasing-wise). When AET was introduced (I think in version 3.5, was it?) I was thrilled and hoped they would develope it further, but they didn't and it was left in it's initial state as a one-hit-wonder (or flop).
But it has nothing of that hybrid-instrument vibe, it can't produce a single sound on it's own other then the tuning reference tone, it only plays what you feed it.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:35 am

secretkillerofnames wrote:OK. Thought it was an acronym for Likeable Original Replacement (for) Alchemy

LOLZ

secretkillerofnames · Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:45 pm

Kalamata Kid wrote: Perhaps you or someone can steer me in the direction of third party instrument to use in Kontakt 5 that might help my music making style. Or perhaps at present abandon Kontakt 5 for this purpose and use Absynth. A bit confused what else to use of the Komplete 8 arsenal if I do not get MachFive.

The one thing Kontakt is great for is affordable libraries compiled by genuine enthusiasts. I'm not sure if any of this connects with your style but I would recommend anything by:
Hollow Sun (especially the Alien Devices and Music Laboratory Machines)
Synth Magic (Phobos is amazing)
Hideaway Studios (Synergenesis is unique and the Orbitone collections are some of the best "string synth" sounds i've heard)
Tronsonic (System 1000m!)

Kalamata Kid · Post by **Kalamata Kid** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:24 am

secretkillerofnames,

Thanks for the list. I briefly checked them out and plan to have a more serious look shortly. This list will save me lots of time. Should Home Grown Sounds http://hgsounds.com/product-category/kontakt/ be in this list.

I am only interested in synths that allow me to use my samples as sound source.
I am generally not into percussion.

If I can use Kontakt instrument and avoid the major expense of getting MachFive 3 I would be happy. If it were not for the steep price of M5, lets say half of what it is I would be an instant buyer.

patchpool

KVR Audio

Alternatives, alternatives, alternatives (for Alchemy)