Breathe, and They May Hear You - ElectroProg (Seismic Displacement)

[seismic1]

Don't get me wrong, I'm anything but averse to using compression (you'd be shocked I think, how much I rely on it) but there is a certain result say with electronic 'drums' that I run away from.
You have a wildly different mode of operation than I so going much into it would look kind of self-involved.

I've never really been comfortable with using compression in my mixes, although I use a mastering compressor on most tracks these days. I guess it's just something I need to sit down and play around with. Maybe on the next track

[seismic1]

Nice wailing and despair at the beginning, yes this is a deep good one, out in the zone! Love it!

"wailing and despair". Sounds like a typical day at the office.

Thanks very much for listening and commenting. Glad you enjoyed it

[jancivil]

Don't get me wrong, I'm anything but averse to using compression (you'd be shocked I think, how much I rely on it) but there is a certain result say with electronic 'drums' that I run away from.
You have a wildly different mode of operation than I so going much into it would look kind of self-involved.

I've never really been comfortable with using compression in my mixes, although I use a mastering compressor on most tracks these days. I guess it's just something I need to sit down and play around with. Maybe on the next track

I use no compression on the master bus, I wouldn't want the end path of a lot of decisions affected at one go. I have up til mid-14 put a limiter that doesn't do any gain reduction except as a brickwall at ~0dB 'overload protection' on, but I found I liked a result a lot better having forgot that bit once, and the track is going to have to be gnarly to put it on now.

Addtionally, I have gain structuring in particularly the lead guitar that at times gives me buses wildly in the red and I LOVE IT (soft clipped). Really push the ATJH models and they can respond like they're really moving.

I had an unexamined fear of the red bar at the bottom of Cubase master bus. It doesn't mean anything necessarily. Sometimes it does but even that is a kind of 'soft' clip. Which I noticed once, it doesn't bug me, I kind of like that little flaw. I believe there's some red-lining in things now, but transiently and I do prefer allowing that now. More dynamic for lack of a sciency word.

I wasn't 'comfortable' with compression before I got a compressor I understand well.

[seismic1]

Powerful. Excellent composition with some gorgeous sounds. Somehow both minimal and epic. At times quite dark but there are moments when there are breaks in the storm clouds and sunlight briefly flickers through. Profound and yet emotionally ambivalent.

There is some intentional distortion on some sounds. It mostly works well but if I crank up the volume it occasionally sounds a bit harsh and unpleasant as if there could be clipping somewhere in the signal chain. For example, at 7:24. The whole mix sounds good if I listen at lower volume.

Thanks very much for the great comments, Frantz, I'm glad you enjoyed it

One of those Tassman patches does have a "groaning" bass component, Maybe that is contributing to what you are hearing. Something I did notice was that there were a couple of times when there may have been just a little too much power somewhere around 800Hz. I was using a different mastering chain here and didn't have the option of using the limiter to qc my peak levels, and had to adapt the visual monitoring I used. I found a 1.8dB boost at 290Hz in the original Master and cut this down to 1.2dB. I also cut the low end by adding a 0.3dB cut at 20Hz.

Yes, the distortion is slightly smoother in this version. I think it could be reduced a little more but it is a step in the right direction.

The other potential issue is the heavy sub-bass can cause vibrations in my room when listening at high volume. Notice the extreme low frequencies in Spek. If you decide to touch this again, you could consider high passing the mix.

I didn't notice a problem with the sub here through either of my speaker systems, but I ran this through ocenaudio's real-time FFT display and I could see the occasional rumble (10-15Hz at up to -80dB). Next time I master this, I'll move that Low cut to -0.4dB@25Hz and see how that goes. I might cut those low-mid boosts a little too.

[Frantz]

One of those Tassman patches does have a "groaning" bass component, Maybe that is contributing to what you are hearing. Something I did notice was that there were a couple of times when there may have been just a little too much power somewhere around 800Hz.

That is probably it. When I have time this weekend, I will open the track in my DAW and try to identify the specific frequencies of the distortion and the rumbles. The DAW is on a separate computer so I can't quickly check now.

I didn't notice a problem with the sub here through either of my speaker systems

I have large floor standing NHT speakers with built in subs that can really crank out the bass (not to mention neighbors at a good distance). I am guessing the issue wouldn't be audible on bookshelf monitors.

[seismic1]

Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed listening to this very much; an excellent piece of ambient music with a great blend of timbres and a compelling progression of ideas.

Thanks very much for listening, jopy, and thanks for the great comments. Glad you liked it

[Frantz]

At 7:24, the unpleasant distortion is at 468Hz (A#4). Listening to several minutes of the track, I think this synth sounds distorted whenever it hits this note.



A rough EQ fix could be to notch out 468Hz combined with a HPF to roll off some of the low end. In EQuick from DMG Audio it would look something like this:

[seismic1]

Don't get me wrong, I'm anything but averse to using compression (you'd be shocked I think, how much I rely on it) but there is a certain result say with electronic 'drums' that I run away from.
You have a wildly different mode of operation than I so going much into it would look kind of self-involved.

I've never really been comfortable with using compression in my mixes, although I use a mastering compressor on most tracks these days. I guess it's just something I need to sit down and play around with. Maybe on the next track

I use no compression on the master bus, I wouldn't want the end path of a lot of decisions affected at one go. I have up til mid-14 put a limiter that doesn't do any gain reduction except as a brickwall at ~0dB 'overload protection' on, but I found I liked a result a lot better having forgot that bit once, and the track is going to have to be gnarly to put it on now.

Addtionally, I have gain structuring in particularly the lead guitar that at times gives me buses wildly in the red and I LOVE IT (soft clipped). Really push the ATJH models and they can respond like they're really moving.

I had an unexamined fear of the red bar at the bottom of Cubase master bus. It doesn't mean anything necessarily. Sometimes it does but even that is a kind of 'soft' clip. Which I noticed once, it doesn't bug me, I kind of like that little flaw. I believe there's some red-lining in things now, but transiently and I do prefer allowing that now. More dynamic for lack of a sciency word.

I wasn't 'comfortable' with compression before I got a compressor I understand well.

Yeah. I need to spend some time listening to my compressors.

I'm currently checking out convolution reverb as an alternative to my algos, which I really like.

[seismic1]

At 7:24, the unpleasant distortion is at 468Hz (A#4). Listening to several minutes of the track, I think this synth sounds distorted whenever it hits this note.

A rough EQ fix could be to notch out 468Hz combined with a HPF to roll off some of the low end.

I was working on a couple of other tracks last week so didn't have time to look at this. I don't play any A#4 on here, although all 4 of the synth patches feature some degree of harmonic modulation, and Dominator and Oatmeal are both firing at 7:24. It's a combination that I've used before. I'm sure there isn't any clipping on here 'coz I watched the meters like a hawk during the mix.

I can see some bass action between 10-20Hz on my meters, but it's around -70dB. I certainly can't hear it here on the KRKs or the Mission 773s, but I don't have a sub. I'll check out the mix at the weekend.

[layzer]

getting pretty good at this ambient business, TIm.
good evolving soundscapes going on, uninperuppted by any sort of
prancing piglets. left me quite serene. good job

[seismic1]

getting pretty good at this ambient business, TIm.
good evolving soundscapes going on, uninperuppted by any sort of
prancing piglets. left me quite serene. good job

Thanks very much for the listen and the great comments, layzer. Glad you enjoyed it

No piglets on the next one either, although you might want to prance, just a little

[Frantz]

I don't play any A#4 on here, although all 4 of the synth patches feature some degree of harmonic modulation, and Dominator and Oatmeal are both firing at 7:24. It's a combination that I've used before. I'm sure there isn't any clipping on here 'coz I watched the meters like a hawk during the mix.

I can see some bass action between 10-20Hz on my meters, but it's around -70dB. I certainly can't hear it here on the KRKs or the Mission 773s, but I don't have a sub.

I just listened to this on good headphones. I am getting the same impression. The sound at 7:24 still sounds unpleasant to me regardless of the source. Also it feels like there is too much deep rumbling bass.

Feel free to ignore - probably my peculiar way of hearing things.

[seismic1]

I just saw the email from this topic on KVR. I'm actually remixing this right now. I may finish this later tonight. If not it will be early tomorrow. I've made a few changes to levelling, EQ, and probably the mastering too. I'll update this thread when it's done.

[Frantz]

I'm actually remixing this right now. I may finish this later tonight.

:prancing in anticipation: <- we need an emoticon for this

[seismic1]

Ok. Latest mix/master is up. I made a 4dB cut centred at 468Hz on a couple of the synths. Then I took a look at the low end. I ended up with an increase of 5-10Hz in the HPF on all of the the mixer channels including the reverbs. I reset the relative levels of all channels, and then made a slight cut to all of them. I also increased the HPF frequency by 5dB and made the cutoff a little more severe. The resultant master now has peak levels of -2dB instead of -0.2dB, and I think is better for it with a more "airy", less dense sound. The DR has also increased from 12 to 13.

Updated track is on SoundCloud, original on kiwi6