KVR Audio

basslinemaster · Post by **basslinemaster** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:40 pm

To me it sounds awful, but then, I would never want a real Moog anyway, I can't see what the attraction is, modern VSTs are light years ahead of old synths.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:42 pm

basslinemaster wrote:modern VSTs are light years ahead

No doubt Bazille is good

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:50 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:Ya beauty sound. Really don't understand not having velocity sensitivity though. They added filter types, yet left velocity sensitivity off.

Is this really true? Is it possible to edit the .ens to let you add this?

Stuff like this honestly drives me crazy. Yeah, we get it. You're emulating an instrument that didn't have velocity sensitivity.

This isn't a hardware synth and there is really no reason to not include modern features like this.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:58 pm

Yeah it doesn't have velocity sensitivity, just like the original. If NI wanted a more "modern" version of the Mini, they would have added it along with polyphony, but alas...

It should be possible to add it by tweaking the .ens.

ksandvik · Post by **ksandvik** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:12 pm

I think modern SW synths are great -- after all the aliasing issues like the early day Reason plug-ins that have now been fixed, they have their charm. I don't miss the old analog synths at all -- not even the Jupiter 6 that I owned since 1983 and used for years and years. Every synth have their charm, analog or digital.

carrieres · Post by **carrieres** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:36 pm

wagtunes wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Yeah, you can't analyze it. You can copy it and transplant to other instrument, though.

But everything inside that core cell is definitely made with basic Core blocks.
Ah, so then somebody CAN take that filter and put it in their own synth.

Interesting how nobody has done that yet unless I've just not run into any or the ones how have, haven't shared their ensemble with the community.

Ingonator did a nice work on the subject :
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... lit=monark

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:07 am

EvilDragon wrote:Yeah it doesn't have velocity sensitivity, just like the original.

Velocity wouldnt make sense on a properly emulated minimoog as it has something that could be called 'virtual velocity' already built in.

Its an either/or thing because both at the same time would interfere with each other to the point of complete uselessness.

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:12 am

ENV1 wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:Yeah it doesn't have velocity sensitivity, just like the original.
Velocity wouldnt make sense on a properly emulated minimoog as it has something that could be called 'virtual velocity' already built in.

Its an either/or thing because both at the same time would interfere with each other to the point of complete uselessness.

What is virtual velocity?

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:06 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote:What is virtual velocity?

I was afraid youre gonna ask that.

(And im not sure how to explain it in short and simple terms, but lets try.)

Depending on how the FilterEnv is set, the minimoog will open the filter more depending on how fast you are hitting keys. Like the first note will open the filter only a little bit, but if you keep hitting a key quickly the filter will open more and more because the voltage that controls the filter kind of 'accumulates', in other words it doesnt decay all the way to 0 the instant you let go of the key and more is added when a key is pressed again before it did. (The Decay controls this.) This effect is similar to what has become known as velocity and was one the minimoogs most remarkable features. The Arturia has it, and if i remember correctly NI have implemented it as well. Thats most likely the reason why there is no velocity option. It just wouldnt make sense to have it unless the minimoogs own 'virtual' velocity could be turned off.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:21 am

SOS explains it nicely visually here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/a ... moog.htm#5

basslinemaster · Post by **basslinemaster** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:45 am

Numanoid wrote:
basslinemaster wrote:modern VSTs are light years ahead
No doubt Bazille is good

Well, probably better than a thirty year old Moog, or however old it is. No, I didn't like many of the presets people had produced for Bazille, that doesn't discount what I just wrote. Modern VSTs are light years ahead of a monophonic Moog, and I really can't hear what it is some people claim to be hearing, that's so impressive. Don't let it bother you though, if you CAN hear something wonderful, carry on enjoying it, my comments shouldn't affect you in the slightest.

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:23 am

EvilDragon wrote:SOS explains it nicely visually here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/a ... moog.htm#5

Yes, thats a good visual representation of the effect.

What was new to me is that the AmpEnv is supposed to behave like that too. (At least thats what i infer, since he keeps saying envelopes.) I always thought it was the FilterEnv only that had this, and thats how it is with the Arturia. If thats incorrect then theres another thing to report to them.

BTW the version SOS had used for this test was 1.1, which didnt have the feature implemented at all yet. Arturia added it after that, 1.6 for instance does have it, but as i said, only for the FilterEnv.

Vectorman · Post by **Vectorman** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:22 pm

The Prodigy filter in Cytomic's The Drop has actually taken the crown for me, at least when it comes to delivering the kind of Moog bass I like (fat but still suited to playing busy, funky lines) with the kind of weight and solidity I'd expect from the hardware (I've been running Diva's Triple VCO through it). Clearly spending over two years painstakingly finessing a handful of filter models has its rewards. I would really, really love to see that filter along with the other ones in The Drop be incorporated into a full synth design with full-featured envelopes.

PatchAdamz · Post by **PatchAdamz** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:56 pm

basslinemaster wrote:To me it sounds awful, but then, I would never want a real Moog anyway, I can't see what the attraction is, modern VSTs are light years ahead of old synths.

The Mini Moog was one of the all time great synthesizers for bass.
It just makes the mix fat.
It simplicity of design allows for clarity and unparalleled punch.

This synth has remained so popular that its one of the few hardware synths that got MORE valuable over time.

Also, there are constantly new major artist using the hardware Mini Moog after all these years.

In the world of synthesizers, its the pinnacle of classic.

ImNotDedYet · Post by **ImNotDedYet** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:28 am

PatchAdamz wrote:
basslinemaster wrote:To me it sounds awful, but then, I would never want a real Moog anyway, I can't see what the attraction is, modern VSTs are light years ahead of old synths.
The Mini Moog was one of the all time great synthesizers for bass.
It just makes the mix fat.
It simplicity of design allows for clarity and unparalleled punch.

This synth has remained so popular that its one of the few hardware synths that got MORE valuable over time.

Also, there are constantly new major artist using the hardware Mini Moog after all these years.

In the world of synthesizers, its the pinnacle of classic.

Agreed - there's a certain richness or fatness or saturation to a Moog's sound that I love. But I can certainly see how it wouldn't be for everyone. And yes, VSTs have progressed a great deal, but few can do what a Moog does, the primary exception being Monark.

Monark is seriously impressive.