2015 EU VAT rules ("MOSS")

[Wildfunk]

and once again you fail to understand the very basic concept that we are not talking about "serious businessmen".

Wrong. Only YOU (not we) talk about it.

thats like the 7th or 8th time ive told you that. im done with you too now...have a nice day.

Just leave the thread dude. We don't need your criminal "ideas" here.

[seismic1]

Two more "Twitterstorms" planned for tomorrow.

Read about 'em here:-

https://www.change.org/p/pierre-moscovi ... /u/9764421

[Big Tick]

Just wondering, has anyone who is not based in the EU, managed to register for MOSS in a EU state ? If yes, in which country ?
Thanks !

[coincidental]

Quick update on this, and there's a glimmer of hope for some change:
http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/co ... -services/
The key thing is for people to write to their Finance Minister, particularly non-UK EU people.

Uptake seems to be suspiciously low - around 6,500 EU and 500 non-EU businesses registering across the EU as a whole. Fingers crossed for a threshold rather than a flat rate....

[ponce]

How do you people on this forum will deal with VATMOSS?
I see quite a lot of website selling informally through Paypal where the kind of information VATMOSS requires would be unavailable.

[Wildfunk]

I see quite a lot of website selling informally through Paypal where the kind of information VATMOSS requires would be unavailable.

Why not? The country of the purchaser is always included in the confirmation email.

[coincidental]

I see quite a lot of website selling informally through Paypal where the kind of information VATMOSS requires would be unavailable.

Why not? The country of the purchaser is always included in the confirmation email.

Sadly, not always. Speaking personally, almost ever. But even if it were, it wouldn't be enough - to comply, you need (at least) two non-contradictory pieces of proof of your customer's place of domicile. And, more importantly, you need them before you take any money, because you are meant to display the correct tax-inclusive price for your purchaser before they buy.

I'm sure a lot of people are still trading as before, unaware of the changes. I know some EU countries have been advising people not to comply, or that it doesn't apply to them. And some countries (like the UK) have made exceptions, for example, for goods sent by hand-crafted, non-automatic email. It's predictably chaotic, but hopefully the EU will listen to common sense and introduce a minimum threshold. It's important, because this is just one of the first efforts to introduce this sort of taxation, so what happens with this may set the tone for other countries/trade blocs.

[Wildfunk]

Sadly, not always. Speaking personally, almost ever.

I never had any "missing" address/country in the past few years. I'm sure it's also a mandatory item if you register on PayPal.

But even if it were, it wouldn't be enough - to comply, you need (at least) two non-contradictory pieces of proof of your customer's place of domicile.

Who said that? It's not my job to prove where the customer really lives (especially if he fakes his origin... but who does this?!?). My tax accountant said the address delivered by PayPal is enough.

And, more importantly, you need them before you take any money, because you are meant to display the correct tax-inclusive price for your purchaser before they buy.

Depends on the country where you live... you could also just show the gross price. Or ask for the country of the customer and check if it's the same country he's using on his PayPal-account (if not -> automatic order cancellation).

[coincidental]

I never had any "missing" address/country in the past few years. I'm sure it's also a mandatory item if you register on PayPal.

Hmm interesting. All I've ever got is an email address, and I can't find any way to be given more info than that - unless your website is interacting directly with Paypal's API, in which case I believe you can get a country code. Still only one piece of evidence though...

Who said that? It's not my job to prove where the customer really lives (especially if he fakes his origin... but who does this?!?). My tax accountant said the address delivered by PayPal is enough.

Sadly, it is now your job, and that's why people think the legislation is overkill for smaller businesses. To be fair, it was written in 2008, and at the time the people concerned thought that all online business took place through marketplaces or resellers, who would have the infrastructure to deal with these things. The relevant clause is the new Article 24 (especially 24b and 24f) and it can be found here. The explanatory notes are also helpful - 92pp in English and German.

I guess people might want to fake their location now - if it means they don't appear to be from the EU then they can save themselves paying VAT.

Having said all this, your accountant may still be right, because national interpretation and enforcement differs from country to country. In the UK, for instance, a similar concession to the one you describe means that a Paypal address might be enough - but only till 30 June 2015. Then again, if you don't comply properly, it's not your tax office who theoretically may come after you, but the tax authority of the country of your customer - using their own individual penalty scheme (ranging from mild to eye-watering).

Depends on the country where you live... you could also just show the gross price. Or ask for the country of the customer and check if it's the same country he's using on his PayPal-account (if not -> automatic order cancellation).

Price display depends on the country where they live! I did look up the relevant EU regs once - it's not easy to find. There's a lot to know: here's a list Google use for instance. And there are also differences for VAT invoicing requirements (which can be very specific and idiosyncratic).

Yes, one can theoretically automate this to some degree, but remember that the onus is on you to get it right, no matter what flaky or misleading information you're given. It's all a long way from "receive payment - deliver goods". And it's all unnecessary, given that the professed aim was to stop multinationals jurisdiction-hopping to gain price and tax advantage. And don't forget that the plan is to roll this out to distance-sold physical goods too, and that other countries are watching, ready to put similar schemes in place. Write to Wolfgang Schäuble and tell him what you think!

[Wildfunk]

All I've ever got is an email address, and I can't find any way to be given more info than that - unless your website is interacting directly with Paypal's API, in which case I believe you can get a country code. Still only one piece of evidence though...

Maybe you need to switch to a business PP account first? Even in the basic "you've got a payment"-mail i can see the name, address and country of the purchaser. So you don't need any API stuff to get this data.

[Zombie Queen]

This just in from Bandcamp:-

http://blog.bandcamp.com/2014/12/30/eu- ... -bandcamp/

I sent them a message because I already got a few sales from EU today and no VAT or other tax/cut was taken from the payments. I think they didn't change anything in the way transactions are handled. That's misleading and potentially risky.

I sent them a message too. The reply implies that the implementation of the solution is still being worked on, but in the meantime the responsibility for collection/distribution of VAT lies with them...

It looks like nothing has changed with Bandcamp since January, they said they are gonna handle this and this is it. I guess it's time to look for alternatives or close down completely.
Any suggestions for a re-seller that actually does handle VAT troubles for music/samples? I have seen people float with samples to sampleism in this context, do they handle VAT for you?

[SampleScience]

This just in from Bandcamp:-

http://blog.bandcamp.com/2014/12/30/eu- ... -bandcamp/

I sent them a message because I already got a few sales from EU today and no VAT or other tax/cut was taken from the payments. I think they didn't change anything in the way transactions are handled. That's misleading and potentially risky.

I sent them a message too. The reply implies that the implementation of the solution is still being worked on, but in the meantime the responsibility for collection/distribution of VAT lies with them...

It looks like nothing has changed with Bandcamp since January, they said they are gonna handle this and this is it. I guess it's time to look for alternatives or close down completely.
Any suggestions for a re-seller that actually does handle VAT troubles for music/samples? I have seen people float with samples to sampleism in this context, do they handle VAT for you?

Yes, Sampleism handle VAT for their developers.

[Wildfunk]

Yes, Sampleism handle VAT for their developers.

That's nice but will this statement be accepted by the finance authority of the developer?

[Zombie Queen]

Yes, Sampleism handle VAT for their developers.

Thank you for that info. Are you happy with this service? (if you don't mind me asking in public)

[SampleScience]

Yes, Sampleism handle VAT for their developers.

Thank you for that info. Are you happy with this service? (if you don't mind me asking in public)

Yes, I'm really happy with the service! Compared to other places, it's pretty good and the owners actually care about their dev. When I have a question, I just send it to them and got a sensible answer quickly. Also, they will actually promote your product for you in their newsletter, something other stores won't necessarily do (depending on the distributor you're dealing with). Most distributors seem to assume that you have to promote your product all by yourself (AudioJungle for instance). If I have to do all the promo myself, I'd rather sell on my own site and have 100% of the earnings instead of a smaller % of it!

Anyway, it's a good place.