A very short theme from Yes (Tales ...1st track : 18'37''-19'27''), i need your enlightenment !

[SJ_Digriz]

The grandiosity and the cape...

Keep in mind that the amazing light shows we have now were just emerging in the late 60s, early 70s when the "cape" and grandiosity was more about performing at the time. Just like the over the top shows of today, it was a bit much then. I'm more into the songs than the "show". Unless the lights ARE the show, I find them very distracting.

I like music of my time better than this reference to history.

hehehe, fortunately/unfortunately his early records were from my time. I would point out that in those days you actually had to play that stuff.

I think I can see why he didn't enjoy involvement with Tales, aesthetically speaking.

It was "construction" before the modern construction process. And, for the most part he was excluded from the construction. He was just told what and where to play.

I like him a lot on Heart of the Sunrise, like that.

We could debate for days (in a good way) what his best stuff is .. on that particular album I'm partial to South Side of Sky for some reason. But, as primarily a guitar player me and my ES-175 love me some Heart of the Sunrise jamalongs.

I worked with a singer/songwriter that followed all of this stuff really closely at that time, a real anglophile to boot, so I was a bit overexposed to it I think.

I've always been a bit mystified by the term "anglophile". I tend to associate it with British Blues than Prog. A lot of my favorite fusion and prog bands are/were a combination many cultural influences and membership ethnicity. But, I would probably be termed an anglophile.

He's very impressive here, and if he wasn't having a good time yet managed this, he's a top professional.

From what I understand Rick and a good time are synonyms.

Just curious @jancivil ... I have listened to a few of your tracks and think they are nicely done. So, going back to my era .. do you include folks like Schultze, Subnotik, Reich, TD etc.. as influences? It would explain an aversion to overt pretentiousness. Those are the guys doing soundscapes from my era.

[jancivil]

I like music of my time better than this reference to history.

hehehe, fortunately/unfortunately his early records were from my time. I would point out that in those days you actually had to play that stuff.

I mean music that's heavily involved with earlier centuries; a whole thing about Henry the VIIIth and all of these trappings. vs, this was mid 1970's. I don't mean reference to the 1970's, I was born in 1956. I mean rock relying on classical to that extent, essentially.

I think I can see why he didn't enjoy involvement with Tales, aesthetically speaking.

It was "construction" before the modern construction process. And, for the most part he was excluded from the construction. He was just told what and where to play.

I like him a lot on Heart of the Sunrise, like that.

on that particular album I'm partial to South Side of Sky for some reason. But, as primarily a guitar player me and my ES-175 love me some Heart of the Sunrise jamalongs.

South Side of the Sky for me is tops from that record. I used to take acid and get lost in that.

I worked with a singer/songwriter that followed all of this stuff really closely at that time, a real anglophile to boot, so I was a bit overexposed to it I think.

I've always been a bit mystified by the term "anglophile".

This guy was a big Beatles fanatic, and based in all of this Merseybeat. I got the sense he'd rather have been in England. I'm very American in sensibility really and came more from jazz and blues. I helped him with one very Beatle-esque demo and later we formed a band, he was very taken by Yes and Genesis. I wasn't writing then, I arranged and sorted for the studio and was the guitarist.

Just curious @jancivil ... I have listened to a few of your tracks and think they are nicely done. So, going back to my era .. do you include folks like Schultze, Subnotik, Reich, TD etc.. as influences? It would explain an aversion to overt pretentiousness. Those are the guys doing soundscapes from my era.

I'm most familiar with Subotnick but only recently have I sought out his music, since there is youtube vs buying things. Tangerine Dream, or Klaus Schultze, no. I've scarcely even heard TD and I only know Schultze's name.
The first I got into 'soundscape' was through Hearts of Space on the radio really. So there was Patrick O'Hearn and Steve Roach, as far as being able to name things.

[SJ_Digriz]

I mean music that's heavily involved with earlier centuries; a whole thing about Henry the VIIIth and all of these trappings. vs, this was mid 1970's. I don't mean reference to the 1970's, I was born in 1956. I mean rock relying on classical to that extent, essentially.

HAH, well that puts a totally different spin on how I read it initially.

[annode]

...and for your listening pleasure;
- beta version of 'And you and I' Wakeman piano. Claims version pre-final. ( Don`t remember where I got this.) https://www.sendspace.com/file/azjrmu

- Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman - And You And I
Temple Performing Arts Center. Philadelphia, PA. October 30, 2011
i was at this show. Had a seat right next to Bill Cosby. Didn`t shoot that vid though. Sound was better then the recording...God awful! Wakeman plays a moving interlude on mystery synth.

[Krakatau]

If you allow me...

Here a short passage primarily composed for a (very) different style of music in where the solo passage (synful violin) was inspired in its own way by Wakeman's monophonic soling style

https://soundcloud.com/perbuatan1883/yetta-violin

Though the passage might more technically talking remind live versions of "Starship troopers" rather that this extract from "the revealing science of god" and it's modal transpositions

[annode]

I liked what you created. It may need more work to sound better.
The Synful violin solo sounds like it was recorded to tape at slow speed, then played back at fast speed. Not sounding natural.

I would like to hear the background instruments more clearly.
As far as modes it sounds like pentatonic scales. Is that right?

[Krakatau]

As far as modes it sounds like pentatonic scales. Is that right?

True for background instrument, this being an arrangement from traditional western-african composer (basically),

this guy, among many others, use a N'goni ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngoni_(instrument) ) in same way folk music singers/songwriters uses a guitar as background instrument/orchestration sketch

As a Bobo-Mandarè musician, their primary scale is almost identical to the Sénoufo scale that is highly achromatic, so there is always difficulties for them when it comes to be arranged with western musics and alike

I liked what you created. It may need more work to sound better.
The Synful violin solo sounds like it was recorded to tape at slow speed, then played back at fast speed. Not sounding natural.

This is all the problem, for such musical passage, the emotional investment can be such intense that it becomes invalidating for technical progress and even objective self-criticism

Nota Bene : this emoticon isn't intended (in the peculiar case) to reflect by any means, a sentiment of inability !

Too intense emotion, too much fantasy involved, thirty years ago it way Wakeman's solo that made me emotionally addictive, currently when any of my own works indice me in a similar mood, it becomes quite like a dead end

[rp314]

What I think Wakeman and the others probably all did back then (which IMHO is still worth doing):

1. Listened to the great jazz keyboard players of the era - McCoy Tyner, Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, etc....a lot.

2. Studied the Classical Tradition - Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Debussy, Bartok, etc.

3. Figured out how those styles and techniques could be used in their own works.

Figuring out what he, Emerson and the others did can be quite challenging. However, coming up with one's own theory as to why they did it might be equally as important. The final step, which is the most difficult, is defining one's own aesthetic after having steeped oneself in the greatness of those whose music one loves and admires.

[SJ_Digriz]

Too intense emotion, too much fantasy involved, thirty years ago it way Wakeman's solo that made me emotionally addictive, currently when any of my own works indice me in a similar mood, it becomes quite like a dead end

So, I'm not 100% sure I understand what you are saying. But, one thing I've noticed is soloing has a kind of bell curve to how it is used in eras. At the beginning of a cycle .. say mid 60s, solos are unified with the melody and are an extension of the song, and are usually particularly simplistic (obviously this is a generalization). Then, the song/melody structure remains fairly static for awhile, but melodic solo development increases to extravagant levels. And finally, the downward trend/slope begins with the melody/chorus coming to a stop and some disconnected section is jammed in between that basically could be jammed into almost any song.

The trailing edge of any genre just prior to the day they all suddenly just solo because its time to add a solo, is the genres most dynamic period. Not necessarily the best songs, but very emotional, expressive and sometimes painfully difficult. I've noticed this with jazz, fusion, prog, rock, metal, pop, country, blue grass and it can even be seen in classical music from back in the day.