KVR Audio

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:21 pm

Deist wrote:
abstractcats wrote:Kind of silly, to just to a conclusion about, Camel's plugs not working on PC, any longer. There are Apple things that are made for PC, as well, I believe.
Name one music-oriented product, for instance.

Something called iTunes?

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:58 pm

Just out of curiosity what happens to all the sample/patch banks created by third party sound designers ? Are they still free to sell those banks themselves ? Did they retain rights or did they sell the rights to CA when the banks were hosted at CA ? (I'm talking about those that were sold through CA)

Seems a shame to screw all those who contributed to Alchemy's success as I doubt they saw any of the Apple buyout money or maybe they did............

beely · Post by **beely** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:17 am

Teksonik wrote:Just out of curiosity what happens to all the sample/patch banks created by third party sound designers ? Are they still free to sell those banks themselves ? Did they retain rights or did they sell the rights to CA when the banks were hosted at CA ? (I'm talking about those that were sold through CA)

We discussed this before briefly - no one has come up with actual hard info, but from what I know, I'm fairly sure that Camel paid the sound designers for the patches, at which point they become Camel property and would have been part of the assets Apple bought.

I don't know whether there was a split or revenue share with the sound designers on the addon banks Camel sold, but in any case, my best guess would be that the patches are Camel property and this the original sound designers don't own, or can continue to sell, those expansions.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:49 am

Well I hope you're wrong as it would be wrong to screw those who added such value to Alchemy. But on the other hand if Capple wants to keep those soundsets that might mean there is a future for Alchemy or whatever it's called going forward......not that I'll be a part of that future since I won't ever own a Crapintosh........

Andywanders · Post by **Andywanders** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:04 am

robotmonkey wrote:It might as well be that Apple bought them to use their re-synthesis tech in other products like voice recognition and synthesis in phones or tablets.

Or...

Apple reportedly aiming to launch electric car by 2020

Examigan · Post by **Examigan** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:48 am

Kriminal wrote:If you DL'd and installed the files from your account after the announcement on CA's website, all products will stop working and go into demo mode on July 5th.

I didn't hear about that, is it true? I had already backed up all the install files before all this happened so should be ok.

goldenanalog · Post by **goldenanalog** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:51 am

What I have not seen mentioned here (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is Ios Alchemy - the reason why I bring this up is because as a late arriver to the ios party, I can tell you that extraordinary things are happening in that world.

I can see Apple being very much influenced by Alchemy on the ipad - as a license holder of about 100 music apps, Alchemy sits comfortably in my top 5.

Although somewhat off-topic, Here's an example of a product that runs exclusively on the pad - it will probably never see a port to a desktop/laptop because of how it works:

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:04 am

Examigan wrote:
Kriminal wrote:If you DL'd and installed the files from your account after the announcement on CA's website, all products will stop working and go into demo mode on July 5th.
I didn't hear about that, is it true? I had already backed up all the install files before all this happened so should be ok.

I think Krim is being sarcastic but it's hard to tell sometimes with that Lad........

beely · Post by **beely** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:25 am

goldenanalog wrote:I can see Apple being very much influenced by Alchemy on the ipad - as a license holder of about 100 music apps, Alchemy sits comfortably in my top 5.

Apple are plenty able to build iOS apps in the music space. The Logic Remote as an example, or Garageband on iOS. Alchemy is just another synth really, there are plenty of them, and Apple isn't really interested in that market.

Really all Alchemy iOS is is the Alchemy player code base with an iPad optimised gui, I don't think it's particularly special at all. I think, other than showing that the developers have some iOS experience, that Alchemy iOS didn't figure much in Apple's interest at all. But obviously I have no special knowledge of that, it's just my conjecture, obviously...

beely · Post by **beely** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:26 am

Teksonik wrote:I think Krim is being sarcastic but it's hard to tell sometimes with that Lad........

It was a joke.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:07 am

Apple illchemy

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:09 am

beely wrote:We discussed this before briefly - no one has come up with actual hard info, but from what I know, I'm fairly sure that Camel paid the sound designers for the patches, at which point they become Camel property and would have been part of the assets Apple bought.

I can only speak from my perspective, but I contributed patches, sound data, and even some code to Cameleon CA5000, some of which eventually made it into Alchemy. My compensation for that, and for being a part of many early beta test campaigns, was that I was able to ask for NFR licenses for any Camel Audio plugins after that.

Given that it evolved as sort of a "handshake deal", I have my doubts that Apple will honor it now, 12 years after Cameleon's birth!

So far as "actual hard info", I still have a copy of the original Cameleon "Patch Programming / Sample Provision Agreement ". It's pretty much a straight-forward content-for-license exchange, worded with seemingly lawyer-drafted legalese. That said, it had no clauses for re-use of said material in subsequent products, nor for transfer of usage rights upon company sale.

My contribution of code was outside of that written agreement. Ben had asked for the source to some of my additive bitmap conversion routines, and I provided it. Beyond that, I can't say how much of it made it into Cameleon or was subsequently ported to Alchemy. (It was, after all, pretty hacky code, destined for refactoring!)

The agreement for Alchemy could've been vastly different, for all I know: I was never asked to re-sign it, but when I contacted Camel Audio upon Alchemy's release they didn't hesitate to provide me with an NFR license and their thanks.

Good bunch of folks, them Camels. I still get sad when I run across an old email from Tim in my folders.

I've fallen away from the synth scene as of many many years back (doing my indie guitar rock thing), but I hope this deal gives them everything they need.

- m

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:19 am

haha the CA's CEO sold his and patch makers' soul

what a shame

Deist · Post by **Deist** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:26 am

trimph1 wrote:Something called iTunes?

And you'd call the clerk responsible of the CDs section in a department store a musician? (I assume that was a joke there, wasn't it?)

In any case, iTunes not music-related, it's a proof of concept ("How to possibly make the most non-intuitive, ridiculously cluttered and confusing gas machine of a graphic interface?" "Lo! We did it guys!" --Apple)

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:38 am

Deist wrote:
trimph1 wrote:Something called iTunes?
And you'd call the clerk responsible of the CDs section in a department store a musician? (I assume that was a joke there, wasn't it?)

In any case, iTunes not music-related, it's a proof of concept ("How to possibly make the most non-intuitive, ridiculously cluttered and confusing gas machine of a graphic interface?" "Lo! We did it guys!" --Apple)

Weirder than that. Much weirder.

Remember, Apple prided itself at one time as being the main platform for any creative endeavor. Now, they want it back.

Apple Acquires Camel Audio