MusicDevelopments

lulukom · Post by **lulukom** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:10 pm

Hello everyone!
Attila! I also have a suggestion!
I propose to make the individual impact of scale from master track and only influence on selected phrase or few phrases!
For example, Ctrl + Shift and inserted into the master track scale affects only the selected phrase (in accordance with the set timeline)
This will give a very powerful opportunity to change the phrases in different scales on different tracks (I want simultaneously solo synthesizer to another scale, not in the same, which played the bass solo!
I got this idea when I watched the video by "forestlong" Jazz Composition! Thank him for it!
Sorry for my English !
Thank you for your attention!
Sincerely lulukom

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:45 pm

This is an interesting thought, lulukom.

I need feedback from other users about this. I see 2 solutions. The first one is easier to implement.

1) There would be 3 master tracks, Master Track A, B and C. These can be totally independent of each other. Maybe B and C can inherit chords and scales from Master Track A but they can override them. For each track you can specify to use Master Track A, B or C.

2) Each track can have its own master track. If it hasn't, it would use the default master track.

Would it be useful for others too? Please comment.

Thanks!
Attila

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:50 pm

Another thought: the first proposed solution would be useful even when you want to listen to your composition with another scales and chords. You could set up an alternate master track (e.g. B) with different chords, but you can always return to the original master track, or promote B or C as the primary master track.

lulukom · Post by **lulukom** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:58 pm

Yes, but why do we need limit the number of master tracks?
Why only A and B?
Good idea with the ability to always go back to the main (A) master track! and master tracks must to exchange with each other scales!
Thanks!
lulukom
PS How to download the latest beta?
Thank U!

Atonal · Post by **Atonal** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:37 pm

musicdevelopments wrote:Another thought: the first proposed solution would be useful even when you want to listen to your composition with another scales and chords. You could set up an alternate master track (e.g. B) with different chords, but you can always return to the original master track, or promote B or C as the primary master track.

A really useful feature !!! Could be used ( referred to ) when one is exploring possible alternative tonal areas.

Adds another exploratory tool. Very cool idea !!! ( especially if you want to examine dependent or secondary modes, or [ chords from scale settings ])

-- atonal

Atonal · Post by **Atonal** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:20 pm

Slash Chords terminology:

I think we need to be particularly careful ( and thoughtful ) when using slash chords, so we don't confuse assigning to them the wrong, subtle intention.

Slash chords are intended to identify independent, 'out of chordal structure' notes to a low register autonomous voice/line. This note/voice is very seldom the actual root of the concurrent chord ( thus the need to use a slash '/' to visually separate a note/voice from the remainder of the chord ).

C/Cm6, B/Cm6, Bb/Cm, A/Cm6, Ab/Cm6, G/am7 <- clearly an independent base voice, and NOT intended to signify the root of the chords.

The issue with RC above, is the screen selection labels this note as the 'ROOT' . This can confuse users as to the use of the note, ..IF the arranger intended the note to be 'independently out-of'-chord'.
However, if the arranger/composer wanted to ( needs to ) give disambiguation to a very highly dense or unclear chordal cluster, one then could use the RC approach of identifying just which note is to be considered as the proper root of the chord . . .

Bill Evans piano solos are notorious for loading up 6 and 7 note altered chord structures using upper structures with flats, sharps, augmented tensions, etc . It takes a bit of time to figure out what the actual Root of the chord is. Here is where the RC approach to identifying the ROOT comes in. ( sifting through the weeds, so to speak ).

However, Slash chord notation signals to the musician that a specific note should be given special attention, and be considered linear, independent attention. ( How many times have we heard an extended , static chord, with a pretty, single moving bass line against the fixed chordal environment ??? )

Roots are a specific part of the chords . . .
Slash chords '/' are autonomous, independent horizontal lines, not always associated with the designated chord.

Wow . . back in the day, it was always easier for me to just close my eyes, and listen to where I wanted to go with the chart ...but I don't play in clubs anymore . . . hmmm ( that's a plus for everyone)

regards,
( Oops . . I think I responded to the wrong forum topic . . .)

-- atonal

tolstoevsky · Post by **tolstoevsky** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:27 am

musicdevelopments wrote:This is an interesting thought, lulukom.
I need feedback from other users about this. I see 2 solutions. The first one is easier to implement.
Would it be useful for others too? Please comment.
Thanks!
Attila

Hi, Attila, it's me again

I totally support this nice & very creative idea of Mr.Lulukom

And I guess that your 1st ("easier") solution is more than adequate for it.
Eagerly waiting for the implementation of this new feature,
sincerely,
T.

lulukom · Post by **lulukom** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:41 am

Hi All!
Thank you for supporting my proposal!
Probably, yes, you are right, and first option is sufficient!
Thank U!
I also want to ask Attila make a midi editor opportunity
fast simultaneously alignment of all the notes of the chord by attack and the length (eg with Shift pressed)
Thank U

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:58 pm

Hi Atonal, tolstoevsky, lulukom,
thank you for your thoughts! I think it is not that difficult to add more master tracks. I plan to add this for the next update (v2.9) but it will be usable in a beta version, in about 2 weeks.
Thanks,
Attila

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:33 pm

Atonal wrote:Slash Chords terminology:

Thanks, Atonal for the detailed explanation. I could not move your post to the other topic for some reason. I could delete it but I don't want that.

So what do you think needs to be changed in slash chord handling in RC?
The bass note is shown as 'Chord Root' by default but it can be any note that is independent of the chord.

Attila

lulukom · Post by **lulukom** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:02 pm

Yes, Attila, thank you!
And then it would be timely to make additional menu for scales favorites!
So we were not looking within lists those that often use!
Always have favorite and frequently used scales!
Thank U!
Sincerely lulukom

Atonal · Post by **Atonal** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:49 pm

musicdevelopments wrote:
Atonal wrote:Slash Chords terminology:
So what do you think needs to be changed in slash chord handling in RC?
The bass note is shown as 'Chord Root' by default but it can be any note that is independent of the chord.

Attila

Attila,

Subtleties are always difficult to define. These two functionalites are distinctly different from each other.
I would suggest allowing a second GUI input type option for the user:
First,
(1) Keeping the existing input, and labeling it as 'Chord Root' (don't use a slash symbol here) . Since I don't know how you have encoded that particular note internally, I am assuming that the inputted note ( 'Chord Root' ) acts ( or should ) as the dominant/primary note upon which all of the remaining chord notes are dependent and vertically structured when you construct the implied chords.

(2) A second , adjacent GUI input option could be labeled 'Slash/Chord'. Here the user is allowed to enter 'ANY' note that the arranger/composer wants to use as an independent color-note, ... "AND THIS SLASH/NOTE DOES NOT NEED TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH, OR A PART OF, THE ACTUAL REFERENCED CHORD ON THE TRACK' , since it is being represented by a note name, it is not dependent on the chord symbol it is under. ( sorta like a free, independent note/voice ).

To assist the user, these distinctions need to be documented in the manual, and probably also included in the 'tool Tip'.

-- atonal

Atonal · Post by **Atonal** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:37 pm

Atonal wrote:Slash Chords terminology:

I think we need to be particularly careful ( and thoughtful ) when using slash chords, so we don't confuse assigning to them the wrong, subtle intention.

Slash chords are intended to identify independent, 'out of chordal structure' notes to a low register autonomous voice/line. This note/voice is very seldom the actual root of the concurrent chord ( thus the need to use a slash '/' to visually separate a note/voice from the remainder of the chord ).

C/Cm6, B/Cm6, Bb/Cm, A/Cm6, Ab/Cm6, G/am7 <- clearly an independent base voice, and NOT intended to signify the root of the chords.

The issue with RC above, is the screen selection labels this note as the 'ROOT' . This can confuse users as to the use of the note, ..IF the arranger intended the note to be 'independently out-of'-chord'.
However, if the arranger/composer wanted to ( needs to ) give disambiguation to a very highly dense or unclear chordal cluster, one then could use the RC approach of identifying just which note is to be considered as the proper root of the chord . . .

Bill Evans piano solos are notorious for loading up 6 and 7 note altered chord structures using upper structures with flats, sharps, augmented tensions, etc . It takes a bit of time to figure out what the actual Root of the chord is. Here is where the RC approach to identifying the ROOT comes in. ( sifting through the weeds, so to speak ).

However, Slash chord notation signals to the musician that a specific note should be given special attention, and be considered linear, independent attention. ( How many times have we heard an extended , static chord, with a pretty, single moving bass line against the fixed chordal environment ??? )

Roots are a specific part of the chords . . .
Slash chords '/' are autonomous, independent horizontal lines, not always associated with the designated chord.

-- atonal

- - - - - - - - -
I apologize !! . . . . I finally have succumbed to scrambled brain . The example above that I included for Slash/Chords ( C/Cm6, B/Cm6, Bb/Cm, A/Cm6, Ab/Cm6, G/am7 ) was backwards .

It obviously is incorrect. The following is the correct representation for Slash/Chords:
Cm6/C, Cm6/B, Cm/Bb, Cm6/A, Cm6/Ab, am7/G

Sorry 'bout that
-- atonal

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:52 pm

Dear Atonal,

I think there is a misunderstanding here, because the program works exactly as you explained.
There is an independent note that you can use as the 'slash' note.
This picture explains how you can set G/D (of course any other note can be used as slash note):

Please note that I don't like when the slash note is used to indicate chord inversion. Inversion can be specified as a formula in RC which is flexible to specify any kind of chord note transposition, even repeating a chord note in multiple octaves (e.g. for bass). A graphical editor is planned for entering the inversion.

Thanks,
Attila

guitarmanchu · Post by **guitarmanchu** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:13 pm

Regarding the idea of multiple master tracks, I would caution you against having that. The concept of a master track is a singleton, and it is very counterintuitive to have more than one master track. It would add a lot of complexity to a product that is already very complex.

The idea, however, is good and I'm sure there's a way to implement it more intuitively. For example, an override hierarchy between the master track, the individual track, and the phrase within the track:

My suggestion would therefore be:

1) To have one and only one "master track" which provides the defaults for the whole song.

2) Similar to your suggestion #2 above, each track can have their own scale assigned (and possibly even their own progressions). If nothing is assigned, it uses the master track defaults. (This would be the same as having each track have the master track, but you could rename it to something different. like the "Guide Track" to conceptually isolate it from the master track to avoid confusion).

3) Each individual phrase can have a scale and chord assigned, which, if present, would override the Guide Track (if present) and Master Track. That way, people have the option to experiment with contrasting tonalities that may be outside of the current musical context.

4) Similar to your other suggestion above, in order to explore different structural ideas, you can implement a "snapshot" feature that allows one to save the current state of the song. Then, if anyone wanted to change scales/chords to try out different modes, they can do so, and then revert to the original snapshot at any time. One could in theory take as many snapshots as they like, to be able to to A/B comparison by switching between snapshots.

I think this would achieve the same effect but make it much more intuitive.

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