New Drum Samples Website : SM Drums

[Burzukh_Studios]

@Dsmolken :

One more thing :

I would suggest using the stereo samples sets for the sfz (the first two links in the ones you quoted). The Kontakt 1.4 GB link is only for the multi-mic samples for the kicks, snares and toms, and would make an already difficult job even more tedious.

Also, generally, what is your work flow for making such sfz ?

I usually use Excel to generate the code

[Burzukh_Studios]

My hard disk is filled up with tons of (Western) drum samples, kicks, snares, toms, hi-hats, rides, crashes etc. I don't need new ones, I don't even have enough time to listen to all of them...

But what I really miss are some exotic drum samples for every now and then...

Could you make a big (!) library with Arabic and Persian drum samples? I would be dancing around the wood blocks if it were possible!

I might do this sometime .....have to find the time to find the local players, organize/schedule, record, edit, map ....

meanwhile this should keep you happy :
http://www.volkoaudio.com/product/darbuka-nut/

[DSmolken]

@Dsmolken :

One more thing :

I would suggest using the stereo samples sets for the sfz (the first two links in the ones you quoted). The Kontakt 1.4 GB link is only for the multi-mic samples for the kicks, snares and toms, and would make an already difficult job even more tedious.

Also, generally, what is your work flow for making such sfz ?

I usually use Excel to generate the code

I usually use sfzed with things like controls and search and replace done in Notepad. That works fine for complex mappings when you have a few round robins and velocity layers which are consistent across the note range. In this case Excel might be the better tool to use, since it can do calculations.

But my audio PC is audio only and I have Excel on a different computer, so I tried doing it my usual way. Got the kick working with all velocity layers and round robins pretty quickly, then took another 45 minutes to add stidestick and closed hi-hat, so I might stick to that method.

What about things like envelopes and release times? Any advice or settings from another mapping I could copy?

[Burzukh_Studios]

You are pretty quick !!

If you use tx16wx, there is user on here (mccoy i think) who made a tx16wx to sfz converter. It works 80 % i think.

You could use my tx16wx patch and give it a shot. The toms you can do as per taste. Some people like long natural tails; i dont.

[DSmolken]

I added the foot and open hi-hats now, so I'm over 1000 samples mapped already. I'll take a break and go do something else, but, yeah, it is going quickly. I'm also putting the mapping for each MIDI note in a separate SFZ file which makes things easier especially when I need to tweak or change things later, then have a master file which just has include statements for the individual ones.

One thing I did to make things easier is turn off velocity tracking (veltrack=0), so if a sound is set to play from velocity (for example) 11 to 14, it will be played with exactly the same volume no matter whether the velocity is 11, 12, 13 or 14. If With velocity tracking on they'd be very slightly different but I'd have to do a separate velcurve opcode for every velocity layer in ever drum. I could do that, but is it worth it when there are this many velocity layers anyway?

[Burzukh_Studios]

I added the foot and open hi-hats now, so I'm over 1000 samples mapped already. I'll take a break and go do something else, but, yeah, it is going quickly. I'm also putting the mapping for each MIDI note in a separate SFZ file which makes things easier especially when I need to tweak or change things later, then have a master file which just has include statements for the individual ones.

Man you are fast ! One thing that always bugs me is how to handle in-DAW fx processing for multi-out-ed kits....sforzando is no help... infact its not there in the opcodes i think.

My only options are either import into tx16wx or use the aria player..but the first essentially changes it to a .txperf format, requires setting up multi-outs, and misses some opcodes while aria player is a specific garritan player (not public) which kills the point of having sfz in the first place.

Separate sfz means i can use multiple instances of sforzando in my DAW, but that is a less than ideal solution. Especially lately, as after adding more and more library paths, it takes upto 20 to 30 secs to open up in the DAW. Wish the plogue guys would stop delaying the multi-out opcodes / option and just get to it .
/rant

One thing I did to make things easier is turn off velocity tracking (veltrack=0), so if a sound is set to play from velocity (for example) 11 to 14, it will be played with exactly the same volume no matter whether the velocity is 11, 12, 13 or 14. If With velocity tracking on they'd be very slightly different but I'd have to do a separate velcurve opcode for every velocity layer in ever drum. I could do that, but is it worth it when there are this many velocity layers anyway?

Is it possible to assign a velcurve to the whole group, like some of the other opcodes ? If not, you are STILL pretty safe since as you said, there are plenty of velocity layers. There are also enough round robins to ensure that there is a zero chance of a machinegun happening. Even if you did not implement the round robins, with this many velocity layers, it would take REALLY BAD drum programming to get it to sound samey.

So yeah, you are good in that regard IMO.

[Tricky-Loops]

My hard disk is filled up with tons of (Western) drum samples, kicks, snares, toms, hi-hats, rides, crashes etc. I don't need new ones, I don't even have enough time to listen to all of them...

But what I really miss are some exotic drum samples for every now and then...

Could you make a big (!) library with Arabic and Persian drum samples? I would be dancing around the wood blocks if it were possible!

I might do this sometime .....have to find the time to find the local players, organize/schedule, record, edit, map ....

meanwhile this should keep you happy :
http://www.volkoaudio.com/product/darbuka-nut/

Would be great if you could do it! Because I have too many (Western) drum samples in my sample folder, and Arabian (and Persian) drum instruments have so much more energy! Listening to Arabic (and Persian) drum instruments is like pure Arabic coffee!

Thanks for the tip about Darbuka Nut by Volko Audio!

[DSmolken]

Separate sfz means i can use multiple instances of sforzando in my DAW, but that is a less than ideal solution. Especially lately, as after adding more and more library paths, it takes upto 20 to 30 secs to open up in the DAW. Wish the plogue guys would stop delaying the multi-out opcodes / option and just get to it .
/rant

They've recently added some opcodes that make controlling width and detune of multiple voices much easier, though, so I won't complain too much.

But - I can very easily create some mappings which are just part of the kit. One for kick, one for all the snare sounds, one for hi-hats etc. That way when you're doing multiple instances, at least you won't have to load all the samples into each one.

Is it possible to assign a velcurve to the whole group, like some of the other opcodes ? If not, you are STILL pretty safe since as you said, there are plenty of velocity layers. There are also enough round robins to ensure that there is a zero chance of a machinegun happening. Even if you did not implement the round robins, with this many velocity layers, it would take REALLY BAD drum programming to get it to sound samey.

So yeah, you are good in that regard IMO.

Yeah, if I'm doing a bass with four velocity layers so they're 0-31, 32-63, 64-95 and 96-127 I'll do velcurve_31=1 for the first layer, velcurve_63=1 for the second and velcurve_95=1 for the third. With 30 or 40 layers, though, that gets to be a whole lot more work and there's not much gained, so I'll probably just leave it out.

Also, how should I set up the note mute groups? I assume kick gets its own group. All hi-hat sounds go in one big group so that if I play an open hi-hat and then a pedal hi-hat, the first one gets muted as soon as the second one hits. Each tom gets its own group, and each crash does also. But what about snares - should I put sidesticks, rimshots and regular snare hits on one group, or separate them? Also ride cymbals - one group for each ride's bell and regular hits, or separate groups for each?

I know that's probably a super-basic question, but I don't play drums, rarely use acoustic drum samples, and listen mostly to music with drums programmed without any attempt at realism.

P.S. Darbuka nut is awesome, it sounds very nice and comes with MIDI patterns that make it easy to fit into Western music. If you ever do get around to sampling some more Middle Easter drums, I'll be happy to help map those also.

[Burzukh_Studios]

The note mute groups : i did not do any others except the hats for my tx16wx or Reaper version and neither did Tod for his Kontakt or Reaper version. So you are correct in that : hats have the only choke group ( note mute group).

However, we did limit polyphony for longer tailed items like the rides and crashes. It was 8 for these, and 32 for everything else.

With the toms , if you plan to trigger the samples till the end ( full release) then it would be useful to limit the polyphony to 8 too.

[DSmolken]

Ha, good thing I asked before I set up a dozen mute groups then! Thanks.

[pljones]

Hi hat mute groups: my rule of thumb is never to have a more open group mute a more closed group (not a problem here yet). Closed and pedal mute open and open mutes nothing, if that's all you have.

Oh, and of course, if anyone needs any files mirrored, my Godaddy server always has space and bandwidth.

[DSmolken]

Thanks, I'll have to see how to make that work properly. Do you have an existing SFZ mapping I could copy such muting rules from?

I'm finished for today but got kick, all hats, sidestick, rimshot and regular snare. Sforzando tells me that's 1790 samples mapped - about half the total, I guess. This is going pretty quickly largely thanks to the naming convention being so consistent.

[pljones]

Yep: http://www.drealm.info/sfz/AnalogueDrums/ -- the Tape Series Two mappings do this (plus not great mutes for the cymbals as the kits had them - they could be cleverer). The Gorilla kit also has variable gating (again, it could be better, I think).

[Burzukh_Studios]

Oh, and of course, if anyone needs any files mirrored, my Godaddy server always has space and bandwidth.

Yes please, if you can, it would be highly appreciated.

Cymbals and Hats (Stereo Samples) - 1.8 GB
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8sahg ... sp=sharing

Kicks , Snares and Toms (Stereo Samples) - 446 MB
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8sahg ... sp=sharing

Kicks , Snares and Toms (Multi Mic Samples) - 1.9 GB
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8sahg ... sp=sharing

[Burzukh_Studios]

Hi hat mute groups: my rule of thumb is never to have a more open group mute a more closed group (not a problem here yet). Closed and pedal mute open and open mutes nothing, if that's all you have.

Some samplers only have choke groups (like tx16wx or shortcircuit) so its not possible to have uni-directional muting. In any case, does it make any kind of difference. If anything it makes it more natural to have all hats in a single mute group where playing one kinda hat articluation automatically mutes all others.

Or maybe I'm missing something ?