Internet subscription and music streaming business may collapse sooner than we think

[The_Hidden_Goose]

I think there are loads of truly different, creative and original albums out there coming out all the time.

The only difference is that nothing can ever be as influential as those times, because there's so much out there and so many different tastes. There are maybe 10 different subcultures to every 1 that was around back then, and in that climate it's hard to break through to enough different listeners for it get that "classic" status in so many people's minds that albums could get back in the day.

If that's a problem at all, I don't think it's on the creative side, it's on the consumer side. And these digital models (though many are pretty bad in terms of paying the artists) are made to cater for the current consumers, in the current climate - not the one that existed back in the 60s & 70s.

That said, I do think the artists should be paid fairly. If these streaming sites are raking in millions and only paying thousands, then there's obviously something wrong.
So perhaps the whole idea hasn't yet found it's optimal groove, but I don't think it's going away - it may change, it may well have to, but my guess is that it'll be around while the ability to stream is around.

[Burillo]

first of all, streaming is not purchasing music. streaming is one listen, purchasing is buying and listening however many times you want (theoretically, in practice you're often made to pay several times for the same damn thing in different formats, because DRM and "but piracy!"). if people don't listen to you - you don't get paid. meaning, you're not popular enough. that's how streaming works. i find it more fair, as a consumer, than me buying records i end up never listening. it prevents me from wasting my money. (that said, i don't actually use streaming services - i don't even listen to music that much any more)

second of all, correct me if i'm wrong, but most of streaming revenue is eaten by the likes of ASCAP, so i'm not sure why people think streaming services are the root of the problem. they pay out just about all of their revenue for licensing already. just look at how much they pay out and how much artists actually get from those payouts. artists should get paid fairly, that's true, but the people who scream the loudest about "paying the artists their fair share" are usually the people who screw those artists the most.

[skipscada]

I really do hope Spotify collapses, it has taken all the fun away from record collecting

Did Spotify forbid you to collect records?

Records has little value anymore.

You used to have to spend hours digging in dusty crates in dingy shops to get to the good bits.

Now anybody can just stream it.

The effort it used to take to discover music has disappared. And I miss that...

It's infinitely easier to find obscure music now than before. In fact, in terms of access there's hardly any obscure music left, it's only obscure in terms of publicity. If you're interested in the music per se, that can only be positive.

What's lost is the drive to get out there and search for music by travelling, reading, exchanging, bonding, which in itself was thrilling and automatically led to all other sorts of cultural and social impulses. For many of us, the social media aspect built into for instance Spotify will never come close.

Also, before people's record collections was a sort of visiting card, a shortcut to their personality.

Personally I grew an aversion to Spotify over their commercials, the emphasis on mainstram and the incredibly sloppy editing of catalogues etc. Commercials are easily avoided by paying their fee, but there's still a lot of music I don't find there, and I kind of feel like it would only be worthwhile if it really were a one-stop solution. I suppose I could avoid being bombarded with mainstream crap if I sat down and told them all about my preferences, but that's just a no-no for me. The sloppy editing tells me they just don't care too much. It contributes to form an environment I don't feel at home in. Part of the joy of physical record shops was that you had your favourites where you really did feel at home. And no, you can't choose to go there anymore, because they've all closed down.

Typically record shops would form part of (even be the hub of) a wider scene including cafés and bars, bookshops, fashion shops etc. Take the record shop away, and the rest lose something, too. No record shop = a blander neighbourhood. In my town, the former record shop street is now being taken over by fashion shops and cafés with no identity at all, and the whole area is just more boring.

So here I sit, in front of my PC.

[The_Hidden_Goose]

I don't use any of the streaming services - I don't like relying on a working internet connection to access music that I like. I do buy mp3's though - about which there was a similar conversation when that started in earnest, and there were (are still?) a bunch of websites that offered mp3's for sale at next to nothing prices (obviously the artists saw 0% of those sales), mostly based in Russia at the time. So I'm glad there are services out there now that are least paying something to the artists.

I do understand the social aspect. Although seeking out stuff to buy was never a social thing for me, the first thing I do when I go to someone's place for the first time is make a beeline for their record/cd collection. Then their books. And I do make snap judgements on their tastes and it does provide some fuel for conversation. Which is good, and would be missed.

I still buy music in physical forms (mostly CD - don't have a working record player atm), but less and less as I run out of space - which is another advantage to digital music.

[Gonga]

I think there are loads of truly different, creative and original albums out there coming out all the time.

The only difference is that nothing can ever be as influential as those times, because there's so much out there and so many different tastes. There are maybe 10 different subcultures to every 1 that was around back then, and in that climate it's hard to break through to enough different listeners for it get that "classic" status in so many people's minds that albums could get back in the day.

If that's a problem at all, I don't think it's on the creative side, it's on the consumer side. And these digital models (though many are pretty bad in terms of paying the artists) are made to cater for the current consumers, in the current climate - not the one that existed back in the 60s & 70s.

That said, I do think the artists should be paid fairly. If these streaming sites are raking in millions and only paying thousands, then there's obviously something wrong.
So perhaps the whole idea hasn't yet found it's optimal groove, but I don't think it's going away - it may change, it may well have to, but my guess is that it'll be around while the ability to stream is around.

This is a really valid point, well made too. Though I still say, I am hearing less really high-level music. Less instrument virtuosity, less high-level composition. Is it just me? Is it just that I can't find the music that's there, that I think is really intellectually and emotionally high-level, or is just actually becoming more rare, while the programmed, spoken crap has become more common? I think the latter. I think synth players dropped away during the 80s and the synthesizer player became the butt of jokes. Nobody ever picked up where Jan Hammer left off. There hasn't been an instrumental in the top 10 since the 80s, and all we hear in pop music now is vocals - no soloing almost at all. Americans rarely even listen to the great jazz art form we invented' let alone study it in music school. I think musical culture has changed and people are less interested in music as high art. Music as a reflection of what we can be. Less interested in great, uplifting and intellectual composition (like Ellington or Zappa). Music has become mere "lifestyle reinforcement." I think it's good for us to be proud of what we create for tangible reasons, and proud of the music legacy we leave for the future. I don't see the great pride in the craftwork anymore. I mean it's probably there, but it's much damn harder to find. Actually, I don't hear it at all, because I rarely follow US musicians at all anymore. I listen to a lot of classical music, older music, etc. and some obscure older, dying artists like Ralph Towner, Karl Jenkins, etc.

[GeckoYamori]

I don't see how Taylor Swift leaving is anything else than a token gesture at the behest of the record company because they are scared over no longer being a relevant force in the industry. And things are certainly not going to back to the way they used to be where the record industry defined the music industry as a whole.

In fact the whole record industry has historically been a lot more shaky than they really let on. They've had crisises in the past as well. Things were going bad towards the end of the 70's, so the new strategy was to pool most of their investments into a small handful of mega stars like Michael Jackson or Phil Collins. The revenue they got from these stars went to funding all the lesser acts, which often would barely even have any profit margins for the companies even if they had billboard hits.

[pinki]

I think Spotify is really terrible and I use it all the time!

But that's modern life on computers for ya....makes fools of us all and enriches us.

The physical product has gone. Like all changes it's good and it's bad, it obsoletes something and it brings something new into existence.

[herodotus]

Though I still say, I am hearing less really high-level music. Less instrument virtuosity, less high-level composition. Is it just me? Is it just that I can't find the music that's there, that I think is really intellectually and emotionally high-level, or is just actually becoming more rare, while the programmed, spoken crap has become more common? I think the latter. I think synth players dropped away during the 80s and the synthesizer player became the butt of jokes. Nobody ever picked up where Jan Hammer left off. There hasn't been an instrumental in the top 10 since the 80s, and all we hear in pop music now is vocals - no soloing almost at all. Americans rarely even listen to the great jazz art form we invented' let alone study it in music school. I think musical culture has changed and people are less interested in music as high art. Music as a reflection of what we can be. Less interested in great, uplifting and intellectual composition (like Ellington or Zappa). Music has become mere "lifestyle reinforcement."

I disagree, because I don't think that there has ever been a large scale audience that actually appreciated music on its own terms.

Musicianship in popular music has been declining for a long time. People have regarded the Beatles as sort of standard of excellence for years, but as players I doubt any of them could have even passed an audition to be in a band like Count Basie's or Chick Webb's. They would have been too embarrassed to even make the attempt.

What is happening isn't that musicianship is declining per se, it is simply that it has become obvious how very few people care about it. What needs to happen is for people who care about such things to form online communities to promote them. But of course, that takes a bit more effort than going to a store and buying a copy of 'The Dark Side of the Moon'.

I do believe that time will take care of most of these problems. Remember, the web has barely been around for 20 years, which is a blink of the eye in historical terms. 20 years after the phonograph was invented, the music industry was barely a gleam in Edison's eye. And when the music industry began it was as a desperate, last ditch attempt of the 'talking machine' companies to keep from going under. The fact that it succeeded came as a surprise to everyone, Edison most of all.

Technology articles are often extremely distorting and short-sighted in this regard. They take the changes of the past for granted, and pretend that the future of technology and culture is predictable, even though a tiny handful of such predictions have ever turned out to be accurate.

[t3toooo]

Is it just me?

No,and in some years hardly only a few know Zappa (and the "like") anyway.

[t3toooo]

What needs to happen is for people who care about such things to form online communities to promote them.

I think it makes no sense because most young people can not distinct about what made musicianship worth,like a frigging rocking live concert,a excellent sound that easily could fulfill today's standards.
BUT,the old records are not up to date to modern standards,less highs,too much "same" instruments.
Young crowd is used to very fast switches and a huge bass,that make those innovations "lame" for them.

[jancivil]

I would say probably we are living in the most creative time of all time in all of the arts. The apparatus for distribution of music is failing the masses, maybe.
But I'm not really even so much looking and I've stumbled upon more happening music in the last year or so than ever before.

[pinki]

Technology articles are often extremely distorting and short-sighted in this regard. They take the changes of the past for granted, and pretend that the future of technology and culture is predictable, even though a tiny handful of such predictions have ever turned out to be accurate.

Wise words.

[kelvyn]

I'm not too sure how relevant the past is anymore in light of the new paradigm that the internet has created.Times change and terms like 'Classic' now generally refer to a certain timelessness or nostalgic quality. There's a lot of great new music that I would term Classic because of it's timeless quality - Alt J's first album for example. Its all very subjective I suppose.
I was pretty Canute like in my initial aversion to Spotify but after a while I gave in and have to say I've discovered so much great music that I also purchased on iTunes.

This is what I discovered:

November 2014

LKA Twigs
Neil Davidge - New Album
Broods - New Album
La Roux - Trouble In Paradise
Little Dragon - Naburna Rubber
The Roots - And then shoot your cousin
Lykke Li - I never learn
Kimbra - The golden echo
Porter Robinson - Worlds

December 2014:

Highasakite - Silent treatment Best tracks: Lover Where Do You Live/Since Last Wednesday/Darth Vader
Banks - Goddess
OOFJ - Best tracks: You're always good & Snake-hips
Glass Animal - Zaba
TV On Radio - Seeds
Einar Stray Orchestra - Politricks
Tei Shi - Saudade EP & Soundcloud
Sohn - Tremors
Real Lies
George The Poet
Lapsley

Jan/Feb . I was busy making a lot of music for a film so had no time to listen to anything.

March 2015

Adna - Run Lucifer
Noel Gallagher High Flying Birds - Chasing Yesterday - I would normally never listen to Noel Gallagher:)
Lupe Fiasco - Tetsuo and Youth

I'm probably hearing more new music now than ever before.

[aMUSEd]

That was unexpected, Sony have just killed off their Music Unlimited service and replaced it with Spotify. Looks like a major win for Spotify there. There's a new Spotify app on the PS3/4 (bit rudimentary so far) and I'm hoping soon it will be on my STR-DN1040 too. What's really cool about it is it integrates with the iPad app so you can switch seamlessly between the 2 and remote control it from the iPad too.

[Deep Purple]

I would say probably we are living in the most creative time of all time in all of the arts. The apparatus for distribution of music is failing the masses, maybe.

I think I would both agree and disagree with that.

It's certainly seems like these are very creative times, but I often wonder if we just have so many platforms now that were previously not available that most of us just missed the talent that has always been around. The arts can be truly global now, and the gateway of the record company or art gallery has been demoted to a large degree now.

There is certainly a lot of creativity around now, and I think people feel more empowered to do their own thang than they did in times past.

The apparatus for distribution has certainly failed the people, as they hang on to their past paradigms as long as they can without regard to the future, and the future falls into the hands of companies that previously had no association with the record industry. Right now it still seems like a hybrid of the old and new, but things will keep rolling forward no matter how hard the record companies and their cronies try to stand still.