Another warez user featured in an FM video?

[Lotuzia]

Just my humble testimony on p-racy : I've worked for some people making literraly tons of money with music ( TV mainly etc) And they were massive DLers and as greedy as possible. I've been in hi-end pro studios, and here again, p-racy at all stairs. Well, just facts.

Then I have very basic thoughts about all that : -some- People p-irate music or software because they can. They dont p-rate hamburgers because they can't. It's as simple as that. As a consequence a vast majority of my students prefered to invest in hamburgers, or also 200€ Nike shoes for example, than in buying 'digital' that can be found for *free*, which is much more important than music I have to admit. The real solution is education. But sometimes a bit of repressive measures might help as well. ( Education only without coexisting actual repressive measures did not work so well to prevent people to drive too fast for example ) Just my 0.002 though. This is a complex subject.

[tehlord]

Just my humble testimony on p-racy : I've worked for some people making literraly tons of money with music ( TV mainly etc) And they were massive DLers and as greedy as possible. I've been in hi-end pro studios, and here again, p-racy at all stairs. Well, just facts.

Then I have very basic thoughts about all that : -some- People p-irate music or software because they can. They dont p-rate hamburgers because they can't. It's as simple as that. As a consequence a vast majority of my students prefered to invest in hamburgers, or also 200€ Nike shoes for example, than in buying 'digital' that can be found for *free*, which is much more important than music I have to admit. The real solution is education. But sometimes a bit of repressive measures might help as well. ( Education only without coexisting actual repressive measures did not work so well to prevent people to drive too fast for example ) Just my 0.002 though. This is a complex subject.

This is true.

I once responded to an add over at Gearslutz, a 'pro' studio clearout.

The dude was selling a hi spec Mac Pro for about €4.5k with a lot of software licenses included. When I dug a little deeper it turned out his Waves Mercury bundle was in fact pirated, but 'it was ok because all the studios do it'.

It's this acceptance that it's ok, aided by rags such as FM that cause a lot of the problem. These 'pro' studio owners, producers, DJ's etc would be just as pissed when their product is ripped and shared to the masses.

[whyterabbyt]

Dear RIAA: Pirates Buy More. Full Stop. Deal With It.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121 ... h-it.shtml

Study finds pirates 10 times more likely to buy music
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/a ... more-music

Study: pirates biggest music buyers. Labels: yeah, right
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009 ... age-folks/

Piracy study shows illegal downloaders more likely to pay for films than music
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... oad-damage

Just couple of random links from popular media.

Have you actually read the research, rather than just the articles on the research?

You know, like the Ofcom report where it points out that piracy of software was 50% more prevalent than piracy of videos, and nearly twice as prevalent as piracy of music, and yet only singled out music and video as being areas where frequent piraters spent more money on music- and video- related purchases(*)

In fact, the Ofcom article specifically points out that those who pirate software only spend about half as much on software as people who buy legitimately.

In other words, a report you are relying on indicate that what happens with software piracy is actually the opposite of the case you are trying to make; it is far more commonplace, and software pirates spend less on legitimate software.


(*) Note that that's 'related' for a reason - as per the article you link to, paying for digitally downloadable music/videos was the smallest breakdown of the money spent, in that of the 32% of people who spent any money on music-related purchases, half of their spend was on gigs. This indicates that its not even a like-for-like situation, ie people pirate music then pay for legitimate copies of that music they've pirated. They mostly spend it on the stuff they cannot pirate.
This would reflect the software scenario; if it can be gotten 'for free' by download, then that will be taken advantage of, and there will be minimal deliberate attempt to make redress for that, unless there is something more tangible that they want in addition to that.

[whyterabbyt]

Is it just me or is there a sudden abundance of warez apologist/supporters on this forum lately?

Did I miss something?

You're only seeing what you want to see.

Indeed. There's not really a sudden abundance at all, the place has always been full of the vermin; its just that every so often, in threads like this, they crank up the excuses.

Glad you noticed that after only a week here.

[maschinelf]

Also , I guess its worth mentioning that while Lennardigital may justify the actions of these guys with the statement that some of them already bought it, and some even before they got famous, there are definite situations where there is a difference in what you get to use even if you own the license e.g. software like NI plugins that have expansions, where pirates could use these expansions with the pirated versions of the plugins but not with the legal versions. So there's a definite situation here for companies to have a big problem with it, even if you own a license. I wonder how NI would deal with it if they found out a famous musician was using a cracked version of an expansion for a plugin they own.

I mean, yea, lennardigital call them out for being stupid and lazy, but in the same statement they actually take the trouble to say they even got it before getting famous. Definitely sounds like a justification to me. For a company that's so good at keeping quiet for so long, maybe it would've been better I'd they'd stayed silent on this.

[Jace-BeOS]

4. I do look for stuff like this because it bugs the crap out of me when people make money using pirated tools.

It's silly to go around worrying about what others are doing. No doubt there are many other more important things you could be doing. What good does looking for it and finding it do you? All it probably does is add to your stress level. What good is that for you? Or maybe you find out who these people are and you go find and kill them to satisfy yourself Who knows!

That's crass. I'd never hurt a person over such a thing. That's insanely out of proportion.

I notice things because I'm attentive. I look because I'm aware of the problem. I don't go out of my way.

It bugs me because I hate that sociopathy and antipathy tend to win over ethical and empathetic behavior. When a society rewards unethical behavior with success, that tells me there's a critical problem with said society. Software piracy by those who are making money from use of the pirated tool is perhaps a minor form of unethical behavior, but it IS an example.

[2ZrgE]

I guess for FM that little tiny bit of "TE.." is not enough proof anyways...of course it raises suspicion.

[chk071]

It's silly to go around worrying about what others are doing.

Yep. Don't want to say Jace-BeOS is like that, but when i look at the other thread with the capitals in the thread title, then i sometimes wonder if some people look for an excuse to use warez, like "If the pro's do it, and i have to work hard to be able to afford the stuff, then there's something wrong, and it's unrighteous to me." And especially if the pro's do own a legit license then, and use the warezed version for whatever reason i don't know myself, then it's becoming slightly hypocritical. Well, in any case, this isn't worth half the discussion such a thing always raises (and for sure not worth examining every FM video under the microscope). I couldn't care less if Producer XY uses warez. It's my own will whether i will pay for my stuff or not.

[Deep Purple]

Dear RIAA: Pirates Buy More. Full Stop. Deal With It.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121 ... h-it.shtml

Study finds pirates 10 times more likely to buy music
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/a ... more-music

Study: pirates biggest music buyers. Labels: yeah, right
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009 ... age-folks/

Piracy study shows illegal downloaders more likely to pay for films than music
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... oad-damage

Just couple of random links from popular media.

Have you actually read the research, rather than just the articles on the research?

You know, like the Ofcom report where it points out that piracy of software was 50% more prevalent than piracy of videos, and nearly twice as prevalent as piracy of music, and yet only singled out music and video as being areas where frequent piraters spent more money on music- and video- related purchases(*)

In fact, the Ofcom article specifically points out that those who pirate software only spend about half as much on software as people who buy legitimately.

In other words, a report you are relying on indicate that what happens with software piracy is actually the opposite of the case you are trying to make; it is far more commonplace, and software pirates spend less on legitimate software.


(*) Note that that's 'related' for a reason - as per the article you link to, paying for digitally downloadable music/videos was the smallest breakdown of the money spent, in that of the 32% of people who spent any money on music-related purchases, half of their spend was on gigs. This indicates that its not even a like-for-like situation, ie people pirate music then pay for legitimate copies of that music they've pirated. They mostly spend it on the stuff they cannot pirate.
This would reflect the software scenario; if it can be gotten 'for free' by download, then that will be taken advantage of, and there will be minimal deliberate attempt to make redress for that, unless there is something more tangible that they want in addition to that.

It also didn't distinguish between people who download free music legally or illegally - just people who download free music, so it's effectively useless on making a quantitative judgement on music piracy.

[KingClarkie]

The irony is that Future Publishing are the most notorious when it comes to "selling" reviews and things like that.

They are notorious among people who believe that already. FM (and CM) tend to produce favourable reviews because with limited space in the magazines they don't bother publishing reviews of crap unless it's something that's likely to have expectations attached. Recent issues of CM have voted Rob Papen Raw 5/10 and Magix Music Maker 2/10, so the conspiracy theory tends to fall down there.

As to this idiotic idea that FM are promoting piracy to boost sales: who exactly is going to buy a magazine because it condones piracy?

[chk071]

As to this idiotic idea that FM are promoting piracy to boost sales: who exactly is going to buy a magazine because it condones piracy?

Noone. But there's 2 discussions here atm discussing FM videos. Which gives them publicity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succ%C3%A8s_de_scandale

[KingClarkie]

I think a lot of people are overthinking this. FM probably arranged to film this guy in his studio and on the day discovered he was using a cracked plugin. At this stage its pretty much a no-win situation for them. Having committed the resources they can't just abandon the shoot as this would leave a gap in that month's magazine content. If they try to cover up for the artist they're accused of complicity and it they don't they're accused of trying to create controversy for publicity reasons.

While it would be nice if FM made some comment about this, and maybe did something to make sure future video artists understand that using cracks is not OK, I'm not sure if they have sufficient clout to make that stick. It's not as if the big names are queueing up to appear in FM and it could be that they have to take whatever they can get.

[BERFAB]

Am I naive to assume that much of this is an age thing?

Are middle age guys (like me) less likely to pilfer stuff because of a moral compass, a fatter bank account, or both?

Seems to me that young guys coming up are surrounded by peers that have grown up around the Pirate Bay culture and really don't think twice about it. And, they also can probably afford it less.

Now, even as I say this, I admit that I do have a very good friend--a wealthy musician/producer--who is my age and surprised me years ago when he admitted that his copies of Nuendo/Waves/etc. were warez. So, maybe not an age thing? I really don't know that many people in the biz other than from KVR.

Thoughts?

[2ZrgE]

The irony is that Future Publishing are the most notorious when it comes to "selling" reviews and things like that.

They are notorious among people who believe that already. FM (and CM) tend to produce favourable reviews because with limited space in the magazines they don't bother publishing reviews of crap unless it's something that's likely to have expectations attached. Recent issues of CM have voted Rob Papen Raw 5/10 and Magix Music Maker 2/10, so the conspiracy theory tends to fall down there.

As to this idiotic idea that FM are promoting piracy to boost sales: who exactly is going to buy a magazine because it condones piracy?

Well, have to say that you might not really understand how different forms of marketing work these days.

[Ghostwave]

If FM had had remose about filming a guy using pirated software, they would have taken the time to blur the "Team Air" part.
FM (and CM) only show artists who use the plugins, not really the developers who make them.
Maybe if they took the time to interview some developers on how hard (and sometimes unrewarding) it is to come up with good plugins and how piracy is killing part of the business, things would change a little.

IMO pirates think that getting one copy for free won't make a difference. And when they get bored, they'll just delete it and download something else.
They probably feel they are better musicians because they've got high-end stuff on their computer.
And they probably also have pirated films, music, games and other illegal stuff.

Deep down, I think that our western society is the problem. We have less and less respect and consideration for other people and we take as much as we can for ourselves.