"Logic Pro X will eventually be sandboxed"

[dayjob]

So I assume the OP was wrong and that this sandboxing thing is a non-issue now, as here it is 2015?

the op - me - never said it was a fact.

read my original post. it's pretty much "saw this tweet.. what do you think it means? i'm sure developers love dealing w/apple"

but as w/all things apple "we'll see"

really, wouldn't be surprised by apple if they do something that seems batshit crazy.

[Sjefke]

I think version 10.1 is showing which way apple is taking this,,, its what most would call prosumer..

We are all expecting some alchemy in the next update, probably alchemy2.. Which would be huge...

But the one thing Logic needs in my opinion, is more tools for live use... Like full integration of mainstage ... And even, more an ableton like clip launching/mixing feature..

[kelldammit]

these are the bulk of problems i don't understand why is it be sandboxed

sandboxing usually just means that the plugin's process and memory space is separate from everything else. so if a plugin crashes, it doesn't blow up the daw or worse, the whole operating system. reaper has had this feature for some time. it's not a bad thing in and of itself, but in this particular case, there's potential opening for apple to eventually restrict how plugs are distributed...forcing devs to use their store, etc.

long story short, the worst-case suspicions of folks have not come true thus far, as concerns au/the apple store. it doesn't mean it can't or won't...but it hasn't yet.

[Sjefke]

As indicated above, this is not going to happen....

The seccond they bann VST and AU devices from Logic, everyone will jump on another DAW..

The only thing i can imagine is that they will add a new type of plugin exclusively to logic that offers full integration

[aMUSEd]

these are the bulk of problems i don't understand why is it be sandboxed

sandboxing usually just means that the plugin's process and memory space is separate from everything else. so if a plugin crashes, it doesn't blow up the daw or worse, the whole operating system. reaper has had this feature for some time. it's not a bad thing in and of itself, but in this particular case, there's potential opening for apple to eventually restrict how plugs are distributed...forcing devs to use their store, etc.

long story short, the worst-case suspicions of folks have not come true thus far, as concerns au/the apple store. it doesn't mean it can't or won't...but it hasn't yet.

Sandboxing in Reaper and Bitwig has caused me no problems whatsoever and is in fact useful, but I think Apple's proposed sandboxing does something more because the sandboxed Garageband caused problems for lots of my plugins when it first came out; none of my dongled ones would load, many from various developers lost their licenses and couldn't be licensed, and some couldn't find their gui resources. I never had that with Reaper or Bitwig, so I think the Apple method must go deeper in some way. As far as I know Apple style sandboxing is not just about creating a memory process for the plugin that is isolated from the host, so won't bring the host down if the plugin crashes (which is what Reaper and Bitwig's sandboxing does), but one where the plugin is also isolated from various parts of the OS itself, as is the case with iOS apps; that's what caused the problems described.

If they had done the same to Logic it would have been a disaster and I guess that negative experience and the pressure from plugin devs is what held them back. In the meantime some of these problems have since been addressed, e-licenser software was updated, some devs changed the licensing process or where gui files were kept, but I'm sure there are still some that have problems with this system.

[Jace-BeOS]

It was a panic point for some developers that hate developing for multiple platforms. They freaked out, attacked as viciously as possible, verbally assaulted any non-developer that dared to suggest the basic idea was actually a good one for end users, and then the devs that were actually serious about plug in development finally stuck their heads back into code/manuals, looked at how to modify what they do now to fit into the new architecture.

Programmers hate change. It's more reactionary human behavior than anything else. Like other historical changes in computing, though, it will be worked out, without an apocalypse, over time. These are newish ideas. It will take time to get things right on both ends (including Apple's).

[qtheerearranger]

just FYI everything in this post that is 2 years ago just became true in WWDC.

AUs to be sold on app store (or connect or something) Sandboxing will be in v3 AUs and v2 AUs can update or bridge to v3 AU from what I understand.

Crazy to see this idea finally bloom. I remember when everybody was raving about this letter to audio devs from apple. Well its all come true. This fall to OS el capitan and maybe soon into logic.

This seems like a leap forward if you ask me.

[dayjob]

watching that wwdc on the new AU V3

says "_can_ be sold in the apple store" but so far not mentioned to be mandatory.

but V3.. i'm sure plug in devs are overwhelmed w/excitement

[ksandvik]

There's a compatibility class that makes porting from V2 to V3 pretty easy for the initial steps.

[dayjob]

There's a compatibility class that makes porting from V2 to V3 pretty easy for the initial steps.

yeah.. says it's "almost completely compatible" w/V2

[V0RT3X]

http://9to5mac.com/2015/06/12/ios-9-aud ... ore-384665

[ksandvik]

There's a compatibility class that makes porting from V2 to V3 pretty easy for the initial steps.

yeah.. says it's "almost completely compatible" w/V2

Yes. What's your point with the grin? Do you know something more that makes it impossible to port from V2 to V3? Or do you think developers don't like the idea of selling V3 plugins for a new market (iOS/GarageBand) as a bonus for all the hard work they already put in for their AUs?

[dayjob]

There's a compatibility class that makes porting from V2 to V3 pretty easy for the initial steps.

yeah.. says it's "almost completely compatible" w/V2

Yes. What's your point with the grin? Do you know something more that makes it impossible to port from V2 to V3? Or do you think developers don't like the idea of selling V3 plugins for a new market (iOS/GarageBand) as a bonus for all the hard work they already put in for their AUs?

i just like how they slip that in and move on. from a marketing standpoint.. even though it's a coder in a room w/a bunch of other coders.. it makes me chuckle. that's all.

i don't code. the closest i come to coding something is beta testing software.. so not anywhere near coding!

i'm sure many devs are stoked about the idea of selling on the app store w/o having to make an entirely new thing after porting to V3.. though it'll be an interesting thing to see how iOS vs OS X prices differ or if they differ and what ipad users think of a $79 reverb or what OS X users think of their fav plug in priced lower in the app store if it works out that way.

as a system it could be hugely convenient for updates... i like the idea of plug ins running not on the host's threads and not crashing the host.. i think bitwig does this? what else does this?

people who develop hosts get to shoe horn in another format transition which i imagine for some smaller devs plays havoc with release schedules but such is life in the wild wild world of software development.

[Googly Smythe]

It was a panic point for some developers that hate developing for multiple platforms. They freaked out, attacked as viciously as possible, verbally assaulted any non-developer that dared to suggest the basic idea was actually a good one for end users, and then the devs that were actually serious about plug in development finally stuck their heads back into code/manuals, looked at how to modify what they do now to fit into the new architecture.

Programmers hate change. It's more reactionary human behavior than anything else. Like other historical changes in computing, though, it will be worked out, without an apocalypse, over time. These are newish ideas. It will take time to get things right on both ends (including Apple's).

I'm not a Apple user, so maybe I should keep quiet, but...
I think programmers like to move on, and not have to keep re-programming older stuff just to keep it working because of changes in an OS. Also, if your favourite dev has moved on and no longer develops a plugin (or has passed on!) then you're screwed.

Then again, nothing lasts forever, and we all have to adjust to the new regime, and go and sit in bars reminiscing about the good old days (my favourite hobby ).

[Googly Smythe]

It was a panic point for some developers that hate developing for multiple platforms. They freaked out, attacked as viciously as possible, verbally assaulted any non-developer that dared to suggest the basic idea was actually a good one for end users, and then the devs that were actually serious about plug in development finally stuck their heads back into code/manuals, looked at how to modify what they do now to fit into the new architecture.

Programmers hate change. It's more reactionary human behavior than anything else. Like other historical changes in computing, though, it will be worked out, without an apocalypse, over time. These are newish ideas. It will take time to get things right on both ends (including Apple's).

I'm not a Apple user, so maybe I should keep quiet, but...
I think programmers like to move on, and not have to keep re-programming older stuff just to keep it working because of changes in an OS. Also, if your favourite dev has moved on and no longer develops a plugin (or has passed on!) then you're screwed.

Then again, nothing lasts forever, and we all have to adjust to the new regime, and go and sit in bars reminiscing about the good old days (my favourite hobby ).