Another warez user featured in an FM video?

[KingClarkie]

Well you can't do anything about the current version but I guess you could blacklist the leaked serial in future updates.

[KingClarkie]

As to this idiotic idea that FM are promoting piracy to boost sales: who exactly is going to buy a magazine because it condones piracy?

The only thing idiotic here is an inability to detect an undertone of sarcasm in my original post.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your comment but I think the point still stands; there are others in this thread still pushing the 'marketing works in mysterious ways' angle.

If FM came to me or my client, an unknown so-and-so, who just put out such-and-such, and was going to do a vid to distribute to a bazillion people in my market demographic, I might go find the hottest warez to 'accidentally' display. Putting the ethics of the larger effect the stunt has aside; For the unknown 'artist', I completely believe that it would be a valid marketing stunt. Low risk, high reward.

As to the idea that any working musician would deliberately present themselves as someone who uses warez, I think that says more about romanticised notions of piracy in the minds of the accusers than the motives of the artist in question.

Edit: added quote for clarity.

[RunBeerRun]

I'm too lazy to contribute anything worthwhile. If I only had different plugins. I'm just a small member of the board.

[Nightpolymath]

Currently the only way to pirate our up-to-date stuff is by stolen credit card, and not share the serial number with anyone (once public, we'll time bomb it for sure!)

what does that (time bomb) mean?

assuming you get the .dll with the serial DL, how can you stop it working?

One way encryption including delayed checks.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=225#wrap

[Kriminal]

Currently the only way to pirate our up-to-date stuff is by stolen credit card, and not share the serial number with anyone (once public, we'll time bomb it for sure!)

what does that (time bomb) mean?

assuming you get the .dll with the serial DL, how can you stop it working?

One way encryption including delayed checks.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=225#wrap

Aaaaaahhh..... none the wiser

[Compyfox]

Are you perhaps under some bizarre impression that Ive been compiling some sort of list or something? Try going back and paying attention to ten-plus years of warez threads, and observe the number of apologists for it that turn up in them. Ive been in more than my fair share of them, but I dont recall you being that bothered about taking part, so I reckon my observation is at least informed.

Oh, I did "bother" to write in there. But every time I tried to show different sides of a medal as "grey vest" wearer myself, I was too late and the threads got moved and/or deleted in the middle of writing a post (I made it once, with an IMO objective viewpoint - two posts later, the thread was gone). Because apparently, having an objective discussion on the issue is not really possible/allowed on KVR Audio.

Which actually really saddens me.
Because IMO we can't change this "think tank" with all pro's and con's , if we can't objectively talk about it.

If you'd rather argue for dnekm's assertion that its worse recently, then even you should have got that I was disagreeing in the wider historical context, but he's certainly right that there's been certain noticable stuff of late. However if you're trying to argue that there arent warez apologists here, you're just being an ignorant idiot.

I am not arguing that there aren't these so called (heavy) "warez apologists". But you have to admit that your comments are more than often really controversial and aggressive. And if we're already doing some finger pointing, I wanted to know "who is who".

Yes, I've seen a trend of a lot of new users here on KVR recently that jump in on "popular now" discussions out of nowhere like "hi, my first post - been lurking for like 10 years, finally got an account - so let's go!". Also a lot of users in recent months that are on the lines of "been x years in the game, how do I do this, how do I do that" and then in the same breath writing "I am not using warez". So something is definitely going on as of late.


I just wanted to be the butt of the thread for the moment, calling you out on your words. Nothing more, nothing less.

[chk071]

Currently the only way to pirate our up-to-date stuff is by stolen credit card, and not share the serial number with anyone (once public, we'll time bomb it for sure!)

what does that (time bomb) mean?

assuming you get the .dll with the serial DL, how can you stop it working?

One way encryption including delayed checks.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=225#wrap

Wow, that thread is an extremely interesting read. Thanks for linking.

[maschinelf]

Apologies if I misinterpreted your comment but I think the point still stands; there are others in this thread still pushing the 'marketing works in mysterious ways' angle.

Apologies to you too. You actually raised a fair point, and I really don't buy the whole 'marketing works in mysterious ways' angle either.

Someone suggested (don't know who) that FM are probably just stuck with it on some level, cause they lay a budget and time aside to get these producer master classes done, and its probably out of their control. They can't do much apart from asking the artists in advance and making a strong statement in future that they will avoid releasing these videos, or something similar.

But I still think the statement by lennardigital is ridiculous, and they sound as "stupid and lazy" as the pirates they're defending. They really would've done themselves a favor by staying quiet instead, though of course that too is their prerogative. Imho of course.

[jancivil]

Have you actually read the research

Yes:

"When John Gantz, research director at the IDC, was asked about the impact of high Western software prices on piracy in developing countries, he suggested that possibly only one in ten unauthorized copies represented a lost sale. Absent clearer data, we would call this a plausible guess—and one that would have dramatically reduced the $29 billion loss that the BSA claimed in 2003. As Gantz observed, “I would have preferred to call it [the $29 billion] the retail value of pirated software” (Lohr 2004). In 2010, Gantz got his wish when the IDC started referring to these numbers as “the commercial value of unlicensed software” (BSA/IDC 2010b).

This last bit does exactly nothing to change a stated value. It's pure sophistry. This is a guy with a premise that he likes a lot. You're fronting for him, so the burden will be on you to show us why only 1 in 10 pirated copies representing a lost sale is a "plausible guess", absent clear data.

Also, can we all reasonably extrapolate the specific 'in developing countries' to a universality, per se? I think 'no'.

[robotmonkey]

Have you actually read the research

Yes:

"When John Gantz, research director at the IDC, was asked about the impact of high Western software prices on piracy in developing countries, he suggested that possibly only one in ten unauthorized copies represented a lost sale. Absent clearer data, we would call this a plausible guess—and one that would have dramatically reduced the $29 billion loss that the BSA claimed in 2003. As Gantz observed, “I would have preferred to call it [the $29 billion] the retail value of pirated software” (Lohr 2004). In 2010, Gantz got his wish when the IDC started referring to these numbers as “the commercial value of unlicensed software” (BSA/IDC 2010b).

This last bit does exactly nothing to change a stated value. It's pure sophistry. This is a guy with a premise that he likes a lot. You're fronting for him, so the burden will be on you to show us why only 1 in 10 pirated copies representing a lost sale is a "plausible guess", absent clear data.

Also, can we all reasonably extrapolate the specific 'in developing countries' to a universality, per se? I think 'no'.

LOL, there's a saying that arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics because even if you win, you are still retarded. And honestly I already feel a bit retarded.

If anything is pure sophistry then it's your post.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Currently the only way to pirate our up-to-date stuff is by stolen credit card, and not share the serial number with anyone (once public, we'll time bomb it for sure!)

what does that (time bomb) mean?

assuming you get the .dll with the serial DL, how can you stop it working?

One way encryption including delayed checks.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=225#wrap

Aaaaaahhh..... none the wiser

there was i feeling dumb

[Nightpolymath]

Currently the only way to pirate our up-to-date stuff is by stolen credit card, and not share the serial number with anyone (once public, we'll time bomb it for sure!)

what does that (time bomb) mean?

assuming you get the .dll with the serial DL, how can you stop it working?

One way encryption including delayed checks.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=225#wrap

Aaaaaahhh..... none the wiser

there was i feeling dumb

I think it's ingenious. It'd be super cool to see a Warez Super Torrent Master DJ making an epic fail during a live session because a U-HE time bomb decides to go off after 100 project saves, or three years, or whichever was earlier.

[mutantdog]

Honestly, whenever I watch a CM or FM video now I find myself looking for evidence of piracy. It's really quite shocking that a publication that earns a lot of its revenue from advertising wouldn't be more diligent on such matters.

One thing with KVR that I'm sure helps to encourage legitimate use is the activity from developers themselves. The level of interaction some devs have here with their users helps to demonstrate that these aren't just faceless corporations and greedy capitalists, they are talented people in their own right working in a specialised industry with a relatively small customer-base.

I know CM has their monthly "meet the developer" column but perhaps more could be done to show the people behind the plugins a bit more prominently.

[chk071]

Honestly, whenever I watch a CM or FM video now I find myself looking for evidence of piracy.

Has there ever been an artist video from CM which featured an artist using warez? IMO, it were always FM videos. Hence the "conspiracy theories".

[highkoo]

Piracy will never, ever, ever, be stopped.

I disagree. Where's Bazille[k], Presswerk[k], Satin 1.1[k], Zebra V2.7[k]? Currently the only way to pirate our up-to-date stuff is by stolen credit card, and not share the serial number with anyone (once public, we'll time bomb it for sure!).

Well, thats fair, but Im sure you are aware that you are one of the very few that can say anything like that.(Last I knew.) Your products are an exception to the overwhelming state of things.

Im sure I am not telling you anything you have not thought of, but because you are an outlier in that way, (and because you make some of the best products available...), you are also a high profile target. There are likely more hours going into getting your stuff k'd than any other dev. A white whale.

One of my points is that if the culture/acceptance of piracy stands, it will always be that way. You can win, a battle, but it is a war, constantly. And not everyone can stand up to it the way U-he has. If the popular acceptance can be squashed, the war will just be little skirmishes with the much lesser number of people who will always actively seek out the dark side, rather than the 'dev v. world' that it seems to be becoming.
And that is why your move to pull advertising dollars is so smart. Win the minds, end the war.

If FM came to me or my client, an unknown so-and-so, who just put out such-and-such, and was going to do a vid to distribute to a bazillion people in my market demographic, I might go find the hottest warez to 'accidentally' display. Putting the ethics of the larger effect the stunt has aside; For the unknown 'artist', I completely believe that it would be a valid marketing stunt. Low risk, high reward.

As to the idea that any working musician would deliberately present themselves as someone who uses warez, I think that says more about romanticised notions of piracy in the minds of the accusers than the motives of the artist in question.

Not that I am saying this proudly, or loudly, but my understanding of piracy is not 'romantic'. The same goes for my knowledge of marketing, on both counts. Im all grown up now, but I admit I still find the intersection of the two worlds very interesting. "Enemy of my enemy.." type dynamics, etc..

I might think that you dont know just how ubiquitous piracy is, or how low public relations and marketing people are willing to go. In my view this is easily a low risk/high reward stunt in some situations. Would you imagine that a similarly 'no-name' dev could be complicit in a scheme like this? I can. Imagine that a no-name dev approaches pirates to have their stuff "k'd"... People think that is just crazy. It is not. Loss Leader

You say 'working musician', I say 'unknown so-and-so'.
I might say there is a distinction there, if half of these accidents did not actually involve huge names. But it seems to work for everyone, even FM, at this point. Im sure this DJ whoever is getting a lot more play today than he was a month ago. And thats not all due to his 'amazing' track. Its not due to "the piracy", its due to the talk, which was spurned by piracy. All of us in this thread now know (knew?) his name. That is not a romanticised view, that is how it has gone. If it works, repeatedly, its going to continue until it doesnt. Sadly, while it works out for them (DJ, FM), it works against most devs.

Were I a superstars agent, I would definitely not go this way. Anyone even a little established has something legitimate to build on without taking big risks. But were I unknown 'DJ Bathsalts' agent, I do believe it would be a valid pr stunt. Some reward, apparently no risk..