Tone 2 - Saurus 2 is available

[wagtunes]

I understand very well, i think you both don't understand what i said. First it's typical for Tone2 to release enchanced v2 with downward compatibility and it's only fair to resume that most people like the enhanced quality of their v1 presets then.

It's not practical to say something like it been said here: Now that the presets sounds "different" because they enhanced the sound the downward compatibility they keep makes no sense.

I enjoy to hear my presets with a optimized v2 engine and if i want to work on my old stuff i can keep v1 tho i really, really didn't had the impulse to do so in the past: I didn't found they sound really that "different" only better, warmer, bigger.

How someone try to blame a dev for the possibilty to load v1 preset into an optmized engine is beyond me. I forget it's KVR from time to time.

Since i have ElectraX and Electra2 and it was exactly the same advert and my presets really don't sound "different" in a way that i had to rework everyting i'm afraid the scenario which some try to build here doesn't exist in reality.

Except you're looking at this through tunnel vision and your own perspective.

Imagine somebody has a huge project of 20 instances of Saurus. They upgrade to Saurus 2 and find they have to make some changes to the project. They open it up, play it back and find there are enough differences that they have to start making adjustments.

This can be a real PITA for somebody under deadlines.

[Sendy]

Why can't these V2 updates have their own .dlls? Surely that would be problem solved? By saying V2, you're saying this is a sequel - a new project based or inspired off of the old one - in this case a complete rewrite of the sound engine internals, according to Tone2. Old projects load old sounds in old engine? Everyone lives happily ever... after?

KVR, bring me back to reality, please :p

[murnau]

Again no, first if i had such a project i would not upgrade (its not that they force you or?) and even if GAS strikes me for that project i would de-install v2 and replace it with v1 dll or i would keep v1 in a different folder right from the beginning for the interim period..

But thats not the point here to build a scenario and trying to make a good thing for the customer to look like it's a bad thing. What you guys want? If Tone2 had wrote no downward compatibilty everything would be fine? Come on! That can't be serious.

[wagtunes]

Again no, first if i had such a project i would not upgrade (its not that they force you or?) and even if GAS strikes me for that project i would de-install v2 and replace it with v1 dll or i would keep v1 in a different folder right from the beginning for the interim period..

But thats not the point here to build a scenario and trying to make a good thing for the customer to look like it's a bad thing. What you guys want? If Tone2 had wrote no downward compatibilty everything would be fine? Come on! That can't be serious.

Nope, not my point at all. You said that there would be no difference between the sounds of V1 presets in V1 and V2 engines and that is clearly not true.

That's all I'm responding to.

As far as not upgrading if you have a major project, of course. I think I have 2 synths in my whole collection of over 100 that I've upgraded to newer versions. For one thing, I don't see a big enough difference in most cases to justify the expense. Most upgrades are usually very minor. In the case of an overhauled OS, the differences would have to be night and day for me to upgrade and then ONLY if I could keep the previous version for old projects.

But none of that is the point. You said there would be no difference in sound between two engines and that is simply not true.

And with that, I've said my peace in this thread. I'll let the two of you hash the rest of this out as I only own Rayblaster and Electra 2 and have no horse in this race.

Enjoy!

[murnau]

How do you know that it will sound that different? Read again what i wrote and dont ride arguments which are totally unrealistic.

First you mention deadline to have an argument then you denied it at some point. Of course because it is totally falling as an argument. Keep you two now alone with the fundemental epic fail that Tone2 optimize the engine and keep downward compatibility. I guess more people would complain if that feauture would not exist so i guess they are fine with it.

[chaosWyrM]

i dont understand why you guys are arguing about this.

100% compatible doesnt mean 100% identical. it just means you can use the old presets, not that they will sound the same.

tv shows from the 1940's are 100% compatible with my 2014 55 inch wide screen flat panel fiber optic connected led smart tv...they dont look 100% the same as they did on an old tiny square black and white aerial antenna cathode ray tube 40's tv...but they are 100% compatible.

geez.

[Ingonator]

I had created tons of patches with Saurus in the past (many of them are incuded with official soundsets), the only synth i had created comparable amount pf patches with is Waldorf PPG Wave 3.V. I got lots of other plugins and those two are maybe not the most advanced plugins in terms of features and sound quality (in PPG 3.V aliasing is part of the sound character) but they are still two of my "go to " synths.

During testing the Saurus 2 Beta and also while creating some audio demos i again found how amazing it could sound. It has a great sound on it's own, no matter if it is able to emulate the sound of certain hardware synths or not. Saurus was one of the few synths that just seemed to sound right from the first day i used used demo some yeras ago.

Related to the CPU use (which is much lower than e.g. Diva, Monark and some other new plugins) the sound is still awesone IMO. While using less CPU it still uses the (in)famous zero delay feedback filters (while the implementation of this is different with different developers).

The new saturation feature in Saurus 2 could produce some great results too but you could also switch it off when you set the mode to "Linear".

As i am mostly involved with Waldorf at the moment (currently with the Nave Beta and the Waldorf Edition 2 update) i was not able to spend as much time with the Tone2 plugins as in the past which also includes the recent Betas for Electra 2.1 and Saurus 2 and also creating new patches for those plugins.

Hopefully in the near future i could spend more time with sound design than i was able in the last 6 or more months.

[fluffy_little_something]

Yes, it can sound good, the Digital init seems to be the real init patch to start from zero.
I find it strange that the 12db filter sounds more muted than the 24db filter.
And like with Dune there is that unpleasant, dirty drop sound in the attack when using the pulse waveform. It is there no matter how I set the attack and decay stages of the two envelopes. So it is not the blip known from too short attacks. It is the same sound which kept me from buying Dune. It is missing on Sylenth, even if I set the attacks to zero.

[wagtunes]

@Murnau

Here is your exact quote out of your own mouth.

I didn't found they sound really that "different" only better, warmer, bigger.

If it's better, warmer, bigger, then it's DIFFERENT.

You yourself said, not THAT different. But different non the less.

Therefore, I rest my case. V1 presets WILL sound different when played in the V2 engine, even if that only means, as in YOUR OWN WORDS...

BETTER...WARMER...BIGGER.

Some people. Sheeesh.

[fluffy_little_something]

There might be slight differences in the sound of V1 presets, but nothing that will force you to redo your old projects I suppose. What would be the purpose of maintaining compatibility if the presets were no longer the same so to speak.
I think compatibility means that one can still load and use old presets, although they will sound slightly better now. Improving the synth engine can also refer to efficiency, not only to sound.

[wagtunes]

There might be slight differences in the sound of V1 presets, but nothing that will force you to redo your old projects I suppose. What would be the purpose of maintaining compatibility if the presets were no longer the same so to speak.
I think compatibility means that one can still load and use old presets, although they will sound slightly better now. Improving the synth engine can also refer to efficiency, not only to sound.

Sounding slightly better, warmer, bigger or whatever means that old projects will not sound exactly the same when opening up in Saurus 2. That means having to remix.

When you're talking about professional mixes, the slightest difference has consequences.

That's all I'm saying. That anyone can even argue this boggles my mind.

[fluffy_little_something]

Well, if you are a professional, nobody forces you to upgrade

Anyway, more likely than not you old projects will sound better with V2. Maybe very slightly different, but better. You might hear the difference and at first think different means worse, but to others it probably sounds better than before.

I don't remember the details of the old version, but I assume that any new features were implemented in a way that they are by default turned off when loading old patches.

[wagtunes]

Well, if you are a professional, nobody forces you to upgrade

Which isn't the point. But I can't argue this anymore because there is nothing to argue. Different is different, whether that difference is warmth, size, quality, tonality or whatever. If the engine has been changed then old presets will have some kind of different character to them.

So if you go back to the original argument that the other poster made (don't remember his name) that if the engine has been changed the presets can't sound the same in the new version, and Murnau claiming they will sound the same or that it doesn't matter or why are you complaining or whatever his totally illogical response was, you will understand why this has me so flustered.

He has no argument because it simply falls flat as he claimed to mine.

But out of his own words, he himself said the sounds are different.

Totally boggles my mine some people.

[fluffy_little_something]

Well, if you are a professional, nobody forces you to upgrade

Anyway, more likely than not your old projects will sound better with V2. Maybe very slightly different, but better. You might hear the difference and at first think different means worse, but to others it probably sounds better than before.

I don't remember the details of the old version, but I assume that any new features were implemented in a way that they are by default turned off when loading old patches.

[Robmobius]

Anyway, more likely than not you old projects will sound better with V2. Maybe very slightly different, but better. You might hear the difference and at first think different means worse, but to others it probably sounds better than before.

That makes sense to me. If they improve the sound engine they can't not be better.

Funny, their Saurus synth never really got anywhere, but it's a good sounding synth. A bit underrated in my opinion.