I have to admit I've tended to avoid Tori Amos up till now. As a major Kate Bush fan from back in the seventies when she started out I've felt the few tracks I've heard of her's were far too derivative - not in the way of someone who is influenced by another fine musician - but rather, to me it seemed someone was trying to cash in on her style, and I dislike that sort of exploitation - particularly when it takes advantage of the fact that Kate's music was less well known in the states when Tori Amos started out making it easier for her to maintain the idea it was her own work.
However I also have to admit I'm quite taken with a song of her's I've just heard called "Ruby through the looking glass". Yes it's still very "Kate Bush" - both in terms of style, voice and even lyrical content (even to the point of referring to the "kick inside" - maybe that's intended as ironic) but despite that its so good and so lovely I can't help but love it. And if that's the case I'm asking myself am I missing out on something? I'm open minded enough to be able to admit when I might have not seen the whole picture and now I'd really like to hear some more. So I'd appreciate it if anyone can tell me what to be looking out for - what tracks of Tori Amos's would open my eyes and ears to the best of her music - even better if it can demonstrate to me that she is more than just a pale shadow of Kate Bush.
Tori Amos advice
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- KVRAF
- 37409 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
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- KVRian
- 763 posts since 30 Nov, 2000 from Vienna, Austria
Don't have any idea of what the typical Kate Bush style is, but my favorite Tori-album is definitely 'Under the Pink'.
'Icicle' and 'Bells for her' are probably my favorite tracks from that one.
Other great tracks are 'Butterfly' and 'Winter'.
Cheers, jo
'Icicle' and 'Bells for her' are probably my favorite tracks from that one.
Other great tracks are 'Butterfly' and 'Winter'.
Cheers, jo
You have no right to remain silent!
www.soundcloud/phunkberater
www.soundcloud/phunkberater
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- KVRAF
- 3401 posts since 26 Mar, 2002 from london
I feel more revulsion for Tori Amos' music than boy/girlband manufactured cheese, because it has pretentions to be more, to have some kind of depth, and I see none whatsoever.
Every day takes figuring out all over again how to f#ckin’ live.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 37409 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
I know what you mean and thought likewise but I have to admit this song is really good. Maybe its the only one but I'd like to try a bit more if I can be guided to what people consider to be her best I'll keep an open mind and give it a listen.chagzuki wrote:I feel more revulsion for Tori Amos' music than boy/girlband manufactured cheese, because it has pretentions to be more, to have some kind of depth, and I see none whatsoever.
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- KVRist
- 56 posts since 20 Jun, 2004 from Copenhagen, Denmark
I have all CD's by both artists. And this is normally not my kind of music as Im more into oldschool hardcore punk but....
I know what you say about the Kate Bush thing but I dont believe it to be any more than a coinsidence.
I know that the labels back when Tori started wnated her to be more like the typical '80 glam heavy rock but she put her foot down and said no.
Since then Tori only records song for her self. If no one buys them will not stop her from doing them or change style.
What I mean by this is that this is very much her style, not something she copied from Kate Bush.
On a side note I think that Tori has so mush more depth than Kate Bush and even more talent.
If you are looking to buy a CD I would recommend "From the Choirgirls Hotel" which has my 3 favorites "Northen Lad", "Jackie" and "Playboy mommy".
Im sure others will disagree
I know what you say about the Kate Bush thing but I dont believe it to be any more than a coinsidence.
I know that the labels back when Tori started wnated her to be more like the typical '80 glam heavy rock but she put her foot down and said no.
Since then Tori only records song for her self. If no one buys them will not stop her from doing them or change style.
What I mean by this is that this is very much her style, not something she copied from Kate Bush.
On a side note I think that Tori has so mush more depth than Kate Bush and even more talent.
If you are looking to buy a CD I would recommend "From the Choirgirls Hotel" which has my 3 favorites "Northen Lad", "Jackie" and "Playboy mommy".
Im sure others will disagree
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- KVRer
- 5 posts since 16 Jan, 2004
Hi:
Boys for Pele is my favorite Tori album. 'Talula', 'In the Springtime of His Voodoo' are my fav's on that album, but the whole thing is really good.
Also if you get the chance to see her live, it's unbelivably amazing!
--scott
Boys for Pele is my favorite Tori album. 'Talula', 'In the Springtime of His Voodoo' are my fav's on that album, but the whole thing is really good.
Also if you get the chance to see her live, it's unbelivably amazing!
--scott
Signature?
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- KVRist
- 111 posts since 13 Dec, 2003 from ChicagoLand, IL, USA
Hands down: "From the Choir Girl Hotel"
Best album as a whole...
Best single tracks?
Bells For Her
Winter
Cornflake Girl
Spark
and
IIEEE
Best album as a whole...
Best single tracks?
Bells For Her
Winter
Cornflake Girl
Spark
and
IIEEE
Alan Lastufka | www.BelaDMedia.com
Producer // Project Consultant
Producer // Project Consultant
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 37409 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
I know this is something she says herself in interviews I have read but I find it hard to believe to be honest - like she said she hadn't even heard Kate Bush when she started out (and then comes out with something like "Cornflake Girl" that even has similar vocal harmonies). Even this track that I really like doesn't just sound like her music and voice but even refer's to similar themes and images. Just read this lyric for example:Karsten Viese wrote:I have all CD's by both artists. And this is normally not my kind of music as Im more into oldschool hardcore punk but....
I know what you say about the Kate Bush thing but I dont believe it to be any more than a coinsidence.
I know that the labels back when Tori started wnated her to be more like the typical '80 glam heavy rock but she put her foot down and said no.
Since then Tori only records song for her self. If no one buys them will not stop her from doing them or change style.
What I mean by this is that this is very much her style, not something she copied from Kate Bush.
It may be she is not doing this cynically (as I felt she had done at first) but even if this is not the case this is too close to be just coincidence.feel a little hand turning inside me
don't you think she feels us fighting
strike me at the root
i won't let you
put her through
what you put me through
when i said --- i wanted it all,
doesn't every woman want it all...
running through the house screaming
girl unstrung you could always play that one
baptized of fire and
every beat in the bar
hymns for her
feel her kick me from the inside
Now you say she has her own talent and style - I'd like nothing more than to hear more of that. This Ruby song is lovely but It's the only song of hers I've liked so far - so I need to hear more. Maybe I am wrong and she can do more than just sound like someone else. I hope I am actually - I hate plagiarism and Ruby does hint at a greater talent perhaps if its not just a one off.
I thought light sneeze was cute and gimicky, but found the rest of her palette overly pretentious and poser'ish. 
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- Boss Lovin' DR
- 14312 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Either of the first two albums (Little Earthquakes and Under the Pink) are her most accessible albums, and also the ones most likely to draw comparisons to Kate Bush. If you know that those comparisons will drive you nuts, you could avoid them. Otherwise, they're brilliant albums. For her later stuff, I agree that Boys For Pele is the one to go for.
[rant]
Sometimes I boggle. I can understand not liking an artist, but for some of the reasons given, I'm frankly astonished. Props to DT for wanting to double-check if he's been open-minded or not!
Kate Bush is one of a kind. She's fabulous. But you can't possibly believe that she'd be the only female singer ever to have a compellingly powerful and yet fragile and (at key times) warbly voice, or that she'd be the only person to pair that up with orchestral and keyboard arrangements... can you? My impression is that Kate Bush fans loved her because she was (and is) undefinable. Try to categorize her and you'll inevitably say "Well... she's Kate Bush... how else am I supposed to describe her...?"
But then when Tori came along, after hemming and hawing and trying to categorize HER, it became clear that the quickest way to do so was with, "Well... you know Kate Bush? Yeah.. her music's like that." The protective Kate Bush fans were miffed that suddenly Kate had someone to keep her company in what was previously her very own category.
I don't think many people at K-v-R are very strong believers in "categorization" per se, but verbal language is a tricky thing and never quite conveys our thoughts exactly as we mean them, so I'll stick with the word "category" for lack of a better one.
If you compare some of Kate Bush's more famous songs to some of Tori's, you will likely find similarities, especially if you're actively looking for ammunition with which to denounce one. Compare Running up That Hill with Silent All These Years. They both start of with fairly quiet, low key vocals. They're both trying to get at something a little bit deeper than your typical pop. Both are in the same vocal range and possibly even the same key. There comes a point in time when the quavering reflection is dropped and the women belt it out with conviction. Then it drops out again, strolls along then fades out.
It's not exactly a complicated formula.
Compare Kate Bush's lesser known tracks with Tori's lesser known tracks, and you'll quickly realize that the body of each woman's work is decidedly dissimilar from the other's. So... a logical conclusion to draw (and perhaps not the only one) is that they or their producers (whoever made the decision) released those tracks as singles knowing that the public would identify to and relate to a certain formula.
I don't know if I'm explaining very well, but I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't think any similarities were planned on Tori's part, and I think people are giving too much credit to Kate Bush... she couldn't have been the only "odd, beautiful genius" forever, ya know.
Pretension is, by definition, a claim to more respect or 'standing' than is justified. Tori never demanded the attention she got, and it could be argued by some (clearly not by all) that she deserves even MORE credit than she gets. As a fan (formerly a boyfriend of a fan... funny how these things grow on you), I have read countless interviews with her. Not once has she ever spoken with a different "voice". She is absolutely consistent in her personality.
If someone's flighty, flaky, spacey, 'out there', or whatever you want to call it, that's just their personality. If they're actually a down-to-earth person who ACTS flighty, flaky, spacey, or 'out there' because it gets them more publicity, then they're pretentious. Tori is obviously the former, and just because a person prefers their stars to be 'down to earth' doesn't mean that the rest of the world is pretentious-- perhaps it's just the fact that their actual personality drives you nuts. Just be aware of the difference.
As for depth... what can I say? I think some of Tori's songs are deeply moving and profound. I think others are just odd and sometimes clever little compositions. Nobody I ever heard of always wanted every single song to be scraping the very bottom of the ocean for significance, ya know? Critics could also argue that e.e. cummings' poetry was just gimmickry, or that T.S. Eliot had no depth. That's an argument that can't really be won.
[/rant]
Greg
[rant]
Sometimes I boggle. I can understand not liking an artist, but for some of the reasons given, I'm frankly astonished. Props to DT for wanting to double-check if he's been open-minded or not!
Kate Bush is one of a kind. She's fabulous. But you can't possibly believe that she'd be the only female singer ever to have a compellingly powerful and yet fragile and (at key times) warbly voice, or that she'd be the only person to pair that up with orchestral and keyboard arrangements... can you? My impression is that Kate Bush fans loved her because she was (and is) undefinable. Try to categorize her and you'll inevitably say "Well... she's Kate Bush... how else am I supposed to describe her...?"
But then when Tori came along, after hemming and hawing and trying to categorize HER, it became clear that the quickest way to do so was with, "Well... you know Kate Bush? Yeah.. her music's like that." The protective Kate Bush fans were miffed that suddenly Kate had someone to keep her company in what was previously her very own category.
I don't think many people at K-v-R are very strong believers in "categorization" per se, but verbal language is a tricky thing and never quite conveys our thoughts exactly as we mean them, so I'll stick with the word "category" for lack of a better one.
If you compare some of Kate Bush's more famous songs to some of Tori's, you will likely find similarities, especially if you're actively looking for ammunition with which to denounce one. Compare Running up That Hill with Silent All These Years. They both start of with fairly quiet, low key vocals. They're both trying to get at something a little bit deeper than your typical pop. Both are in the same vocal range and possibly even the same key. There comes a point in time when the quavering reflection is dropped and the women belt it out with conviction. Then it drops out again, strolls along then fades out.
It's not exactly a complicated formula.
Compare Kate Bush's lesser known tracks with Tori's lesser known tracks, and you'll quickly realize that the body of each woman's work is decidedly dissimilar from the other's. So... a logical conclusion to draw (and perhaps not the only one) is that they or their producers (whoever made the decision) released those tracks as singles knowing that the public would identify to and relate to a certain formula.
I don't know if I'm explaining very well, but I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't think any similarities were planned on Tori's part, and I think people are giving too much credit to Kate Bush... she couldn't have been the only "odd, beautiful genius" forever, ya know.
Pretension is, by definition, a claim to more respect or 'standing' than is justified. Tori never demanded the attention she got, and it could be argued by some (clearly not by all) that she deserves even MORE credit than she gets. As a fan (formerly a boyfriend of a fan... funny how these things grow on you), I have read countless interviews with her. Not once has she ever spoken with a different "voice". She is absolutely consistent in her personality.
If someone's flighty, flaky, spacey, 'out there', or whatever you want to call it, that's just their personality. If they're actually a down-to-earth person who ACTS flighty, flaky, spacey, or 'out there' because it gets them more publicity, then they're pretentious. Tori is obviously the former, and just because a person prefers their stars to be 'down to earth' doesn't mean that the rest of the world is pretentious-- perhaps it's just the fact that their actual personality drives you nuts. Just be aware of the difference.
As for depth... what can I say? I think some of Tori's songs are deeply moving and profound. I think others are just odd and sometimes clever little compositions. Nobody I ever heard of always wanted every single song to be scraping the very bottom of the ocean for significance, ya know? Critics could also argue that e.e. cummings' poetry was just gimmickry, or that T.S. Eliot had no depth. That's an argument that can't really be won.
[/rant]
Greg
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- KVRian
- 1399 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
Well,since this is an electronic/synth site mainly,I'd say,check out Choirgirl,or Venus,both electrono-friendly Tori cds.
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- KVRist
- 106 posts since 28 Apr, 2003
I would start with Tori's last two albums, Scarlet's Walk and Scarlet's Hidden Treasures (the one with Ruby on it).
These are the first two albums of hers that she is really pushing music in a new direction (i.e. fusing genres in a way that is both interesting and entertaining). The content is very diverse, plus you'll get some great electric piano and ARP playing on these discs.
If you like those, then you will probably eventually want to buy all of her earlier discs (starting with Under the Pink), as most of her fans usually do.
These are the first two albums of hers that she is really pushing music in a new direction (i.e. fusing genres in a way that is both interesting and entertaining). The content is very diverse, plus you'll get some great electric piano and ARP playing on these discs.
If you like those, then you will probably eventually want to buy all of her earlier discs (starting with Under the Pink), as most of her fans usually do.
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- KVRAF
- 7315 posts since 7 Mar, 2003
Just out of curiosity, music aside too, have you read ANY of her lyrics??chagzuki wrote:I feel more revulsion for Tori Amos' music than boy/girlband manufactured cheese, because it has pretentions to be more, to have some kind of depth, and I see none whatsoever.
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