KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:09 pm

Well, no. The plugin version is a complete rewrite as far as i read. And the GUI is different. And it's VST and AU, so developed for 2 platforms instead of 1. And had to be dealt with with the platform specific things. Well, maybe Rolf can tell something about it.

Nightpolymath · Post by **Nightpolymath** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:43 pm

I am still in two minds as to whether to get this. I am comparing to Largo or PPG Wave 3 and find the sound to have less "weight," if that makes any sense at all? Particularly in the lower frequencies. Maybe I'm just imagining it. It's super efficient CPU-wise, which is good, but I was wondering what compromises had to be made (apart from being able to run in IOS initially) compared to something that was designed for the PC or OS X from the ground up.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:53 pm

FWIW, i also found Largo to have more bottom end. Largo features a bass boost option though, so maybe it'd be fair to compare them with that option deactivated.

Ameyah Audio · Post by **Ameyah Audio** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:07 pm

lol 100MB for a vst2 x86

and elicenser, was so tempted to buy, but eyy nooo.

is there a way to demo without the elicenser?

temporubato · Post by **temporubato** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:08 pm

Nightpolymath wrote:I am still in two minds as to whether to get this. I am comparing to Largo or PPG Wave 3 and find the sound to have less "weight," if that makes any sense at all? Particularly in the lower frequencies. Maybe I'm just imagining it. It's super efficient CPU-wise, which is good, but I was wondering what compromises had to be made (apart from being able to run in IOS initially) compared to something that was designed for the PC or OS X from the ground up.

Hi

there was no need for any compromise in regards to audio/DSP quality. Neither on iOS nor on PC/Mac. The only thing we did on iOS was to adjust the maximum number of voices to the hardware generation of the iPad. But the sound quality was never compromised. Nave is based mainly on digital algorithms and not on virtual analogue modelling (except for OSC3). While in analogue modelling some extra CPU cycles might bring some additional quality (or not), in a digital algorithm the sound quality is mainly based on the algorithm itself but not a direct function of the required CPU cycles. That said, it has to be noted that there's of course a weak relationship between available CPU cycles and sound quality, but for us the algorithm itself is more important than let's say running everything oversampled or extensive modelling of analogue components or such.

The idea of Nave was not to make a remake or v2 of any existing Waldorf wavetable synths like Largo or Blofeld etc. but to make a new one by further developing existing technology. Nave has its own character and sound and is not intended to make Largo obsolete. If Nave would sound like Largo we would have made something wrong. Nave adds a lot of new and unique sonic characteristic and possibilities. We've put in about 970 factory patches from a wide range of diverse sound designers. So, there's a good chance that you find something inspiring to start your own explorations or just use the patch as it is. Even myself I'm always astonished how far you can get with Nave in terms of sonic richness and variety without doing complex and cumbersome editing.

Whatever synths are in your favourite stack, if with Nave you've got an additional beast inspiring you to new sounds & music, then our work made sense.

Cheers
Rolf

temporubato · Post by **temporubato** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:16 pm

Ameyah Audio wrote:lol 100MB for a vst2 x86
and elicenser, was so tempted to buy, but eyy nooo.

is there a way to demo without the elicenser?

Nave runs without USB dongle eLicenser but just with activation to your hard-disk much like other non-dongle systems work. This is true for the demo as well for the final version. Oh BTW, there's is no limited demo, it's the real version with all capabilities, no limitations, no crackle, no noise, all save & load works - only that the evaluation license expires after a while.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:39 pm

What i especially like about Nave is the extended wavetable functions. It's really easy to bring a lot of movement in the sound by just adding some travel amount, which i believe affects both the wavetable morph and spectrum at the same time? Then just add some pitch modulation, and you really have a lot of movement already.

And that without any unison or something, but it already sounds pretty rich. Didn't really start to dig into the wavetable editing yet, but that'll be one thing i'd like to try out too.

temporubato · Post by **temporubato** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:44 pm

chk071 wrote:Well, no. The plugin version is a complete rewrite as far as i read. And the GUI is different. And it's VST and AU, so developed for 2 platforms instead of 1. And had to be dealt with with the platform specific things. Well, maybe Rolf can tell something about it.

iOS code simply does not run on Windows and even not on OSX. And we are not using any kind of generic frameworks which may have the work made easier but which would add additional layers of complexity and potentially taking performance away. Everything is native and directly implemented within the specific platform and plugin format - but of course using a common kernel to re-use as much as possible.

The UI is completely redesigned. We could have easily packed the plugin version with additional features, but then we would have lost patch compatibility with the iPad version which we think is a good thing. We have a great list of additional things we could do for a 1.1. We will see how Nave will behave in the wild and then work from there.

KingTuck · Post by **KingTuck** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:04 am

Cool. Hope it goes up on the shop soon!

goldenanalog · Post by **goldenanalog** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:28 am

temporubato (Rolf) wrote:The only thing we did on iOS was to adjust the maximum number of voices to the hardware generation of the iPad.

Rolf: What *is* the actual breakdown for # voices/iPad gen?

And a *HUGE* thanks! is in order to you guys for pushing wavetable tech to the next gen -

I've been loving wavetable synthesis since Rush's heavy use starting in the mid 80's:

GA 'What inspires your melodies when you sit down at the keyboard?'

GL 'A lot times the sound inspires me. That's why I'm so in love with the PPG that I have now - it's almost like a magical instrument. It's got such a wide variety of interesting sounds. I prefer sounds that are like acoustic instruments but have something of their own; something undefinable. Whenever I stumble over one of those sounds, the melodies just pop out of me. As soon as I hear a sound and start playing around with it, things come to mind. Of all the instruments I've had, I think the PPG drives me the most to write.'

GA 'What other features sold you on the PPG?'

GL 'What I liked about the PPG was the fact that it was a digital *and* an analog synthesizer [digital oscillators with analog filters]. Mind you, there's nothing like an analog synthesizer when you want a powerful sound. Analog synthesizers like the Oberheim OB-Xa and the Roland JP-8 have an organic punch to them that I find difficult to get out of a digital synthesizer like the PPG. But they have their own unique areas where they shine. The PPG has a crystalline sound which sparkles. It has a very 'invisible' sort of sound that the guitar punches through very easily. I guess the structure of the wavetables and the combination of waveforms that go into making the wavetable and the digitized sound itself imparts a more 'transparent' quality to the sound. Analog synthesizers seem to be a little more 'sludgy' and soak up more space. I find it's harder to get that crystal clarity out of them. With the PPG, I can take a digital sound and apply all the standard analog techniques to it. The PPG is also very 'user-friendly,' as they say in the computer world. It's laid out very well - very applicable to the player. Some synthesizers are great for the studio, but not so practical for a performance. The PPG stands on its own as a performance synthesizer, and it can be used for sampling sounds in the studio like a Fairlight by adding the Waveterm. Although the composition page on the Fairlight is probably a lot more extensive, the PPG is developing in that area. Besides, I just love the sound of it; it really has inspiring sounds.'

Geddy Lee, in an interview conducted by Greg Armbruster & published in: Keyboard Magazine, September, 1984

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transc ... yboard.htm

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:54 am

somehow the gui is looking bad for my taste

well let's see how the demo will be ;D

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:05 am

Caine123 wrote:somehow the gui is looking bad for my taste
well let's see how the demo will be ;D

Its terrible. That and the licencing system means a big no here.

KingTuck · Post by **KingTuck** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:15 am

Kriminal wrote:
Caine123 wrote:somehow the gui is looking bad for my taste
well let's see how the demo will be ;D
Its terrible. That and the licencing system means a big no here.

I like the UI. I don't like elicensor but I may look past it.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:48 am

Caine123 wrote:somehow the gui is looking bad for my taste
well let's see how the demo will be ;D

Actually i wasn't sure about the GUI too when i saw it on the pictures. It's better when you actually use it though. And especially, the important stuff is all accessible from one page which is a big plus.

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:57 am

chk071 wrote:
Caine123 wrote:somehow the gui is looking bad for my taste
well let's see how the demo will be ;D
Actually i wasn't sure about the GUI too when i saw it on the pictures. It's better when you actually use it though. And especially, the important stuff is all accessible from one page which is a big plus.

definitely, i am curious how it is compared to my FAVOURITE Serum. serum is really for me also a blast as i learn so much about synthesis with it and it is very easy.

Waldorf Nave VST version at thomann.de