KVR Audio

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:16 pm

Elo

So i want to recreate the amazing high resonance sweeps from Van Halen - 1984.
Which look like this:

But from most freeware and few payware demos (including some of the most loved on KVR) i get something like this:

Yes there are some with nonlinear envelopes (Sonigen Modular for example), but most do the transition from A to S with a little sudden bend.
The glorious exception is Elektrostudio Virtual Model Mini that does it as smoothly as a gentle morning breeze:

Pity the developer is not very active, because EXP envelopes in all his synths are bugged and introduce some very audible artifacts.

Are nonlinear EXP/LOG envelopes very hard to code ?
If not, then why are they so rare in modern VSTi synths ?

So if you are a developer, please give your synths a little switch between linear and nonlinear envelopes !

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:30 pm

If there's a mod matrix and the synth allows it, you can modulate the envelope amount by the envelope amount, then adjust the amount of the amount that the envelope amount is affected by the envelope amount. What that amounts to (see what I'm doing here?) is you can control between exponential, logarithmic, and anything inbetween by using the modulation amount. Set it up like:

Source: Envelope level
Destination: Envelope level (or modulation amount, however the synth handles it)
Amount: -100 to 100

I believe this works in ACE. ACE and other u-he synths also have a modulation mapper. From there you can map an input to any output value for a modulator, so if you draw a curve in there, it'll convert linear movement to exponential.

fluffy_little_something · Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:54 pm

Strange, imho most synths do have non-linear envelopes...

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:38 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Strange, imho most synths do have non-linear envelopes...

Can you name any freeware ones that do it as smoothly as my best example above ?
Btw i used Signaldust Dust Analyzer to get these spectrograms.

fluffy_little_something · Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:05 am

Oh, this is about freeware? Didn't know...

Either way, I can't think of any synth I have that has linear envelopes. Most seem to have exponential ones, some even allow to choose the curve.

I don't know what exactly you have done in your tests so I can't do such a test.
Do you have a specific example of such a VH sweep? Video plus min/sec?

What is "gibe" by the way?

elassi · Post by **elassi** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:53 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Do you have a specific example of such a VH sweep? Video plus min/sec?

It's the very first sound your hear on the album.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:31 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:Oh, this is about freeware? Didn't know...

As i said i also tested some payware demos.

fluffy_little_something wrote:Either way, I can't think of any synth I have that has linear envelopes. Most seem to have exponential ones, some even allow to choose the curve.

Try Diva.

Maybe not 100% linear, but still too fast near the end of the A stage, which results in a sudden change to S stage that doesn't sound as it sounds in 1984 at all.

fluffy_little_something wrote:I don't know what exactly you have done in your tests so I can't do such a test.

Nothing really complicated.
Filter freq = 0-10%
Filter resonance = 70-90%
Filter envelope amount = 80-100%
Filter keytrack = 100%

FEnv attack = Slow
FEnv release = Medium
FEnv Sustain = 100%
FEnv release switch = on

It is a 2 note 1 octave apart sound, so a polysynth would be best.

fluffy_little_something wrote:Do you have a specific example of such a VH sweep? Video plus min/sec?

Elassi linked it.

fluffy_little_something wrote:What is "gibe" by the way?

V is just next to B.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:52 pm

Looped the problem in red.

And don't get me wrong, i think that Diva is absolutely fantastic, just not for this exact sound.

Or is there any hidden way to make a smooth envelope in Diva like in Model Mini ?

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:59 pm

Also here you can hear that another OB-Xa envelopes really sound like they sound on Van Halens OB-Xa, so there was no additional "knob turning magic" involved.

Taifunk · Post by **Taifunk** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:22 pm

Vaporizer has different types of envelope analog,digital and linear.
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/vaporiz ... cs/details

fluffy_little_something · Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:12 pm

Taifunk wrote:Vaporizer has different types of envelope analog,digital and linear.
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/vaporiz ... cs/details

Vaporizer's envelopes sound very good, like Sylenth's they also have a very pleasant attack. The whole synth sounds very good and pleasant, unfortunately it eats my CPU alive and the user interface controls/labels are hard to read

Taifunk · Post by **Taifunk** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:39 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:
Taifunk wrote:Vaporizer has different types of envelope analog,digital and linear.
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/vaporiz ... cs/details
Vaporizer's envelopes sound very good, like Sylenth's they also have a very pleasant attack. The whole synth sounds very good and pleasant, unfortunately it eats my CPU alive and the user interface controls/labels are hard to read

it is true

, it is a little heavy on the cpu, the developer said it will certainly be optimized and also there will be new features, will surely become a great synth ,I really like.

Taifunk · Post by **Taifunk** » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:35 pm

I tried to recreate the sound with Aurora ,xoxos synth have a curvable envelope with some adjustments you should get that kind of sound, looks quite similar.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:00 am

Nice

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:38 pm

Checked the "out of tune going" version of Zebra 2 i forgot about earlier when i was doing my first test.
If you set the envelope to 16sX and V-slope and set the slider all the way left, it gives a shape almost exactly like in Virtual Model Mini !

Sounds and looks beautiful.

Give me NONlinear ADSR !