hi members of the best music forum:))
ok.. i'am confused.... can you help me please?
i've got machine with a komplete kontrol keyboards.... i'am into it also of nice scale system(each key of keyboards colored for each scale, which i really don't have in my mind at the moment)
there are fifteen scales - to list it, if you need to know it for my question:
chromatic,
major,
minor,
harmonic minor,
major pentatonic,
minor pentatonic,
blues,
japanese,
freygish,
gypsy,
flamenco,
altered,
whole-half tone
half-whole diminished,
whole-half diminished....
but there i don't know how to continue.... if my dj traktor set-up(and even the whole beatport!) uses in a song major or minor key signature.. only! i really don't think, even not now, electronic music producers uses, only major and minor scales(maybe + harmonic minor, pentatonic major and pentatonic minor where title says how i can use it in my dj sets) but when is producer on a maschine all the listed scales....
so, please, how it is with this? i road this major and minor signature is good for harmonic mixing where you mix song and next can be halftone on a side, in same major/minor signature or same key in a other major/minor signature.... it can be cool but really don't know what's i'll do if i want use all that scales....
so, how is it with major/minor signature for each scale? or really all the producers use only major/minor scales?
thank you for you appreciated help;)
cheers..
major and minor dj set - can all the scales which exist be major or minor?
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- KVRian
- 535 posts since 25 Nov, 2010
trust analog.... (owner of digital)
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
If you want to be precise, key signatures belong to major and minor keys, end of story. (Minor carries variants doing altered sixth and seventh degrees. The meaning of 'harmonic minor' is that the seventh is raised to match the major third of the 'dominant' V harmony. "Melodic minor" ascends raising both 6 & 7 and descends with that neutralized back to 'natural minor'.)
Beyond that, we'll run into modes. A whole can of worms opens up here. But I'll restrict myself to showing by example. C major and F lydian are both all white notes on a regular keyboard. So they're written showing no flats or sharps. But F lydian is not in the key of C. F major and Bb lydian both have a Bb, in exception to all white notes. The key signature for F major shows the one flat, Bb. It's convenient and simple to write music from Bb lydian using that flat in a 'key signature', but it is _not_ key of F major.
So it may be useful for this "harmonic mixing" for key signature to become a primary consideration, but in terms of musicianship we must make a distinction. F and Bb are their respective 'tonics' or central, home note.
A number of scales in your list do not conform to key signature.
("Japanese" as a name isn't good, because I have no clue what it is. There will be many scales 'from Japan'. Equally "altered" brings no particular meaning.)
Chromatic is 12 notes with no center at all.
the 'diminished' scales are symmetrical. EG: C Db Eb E F# G# A Bb. Key is not indicated, it could well be anything. The usage of those belongs to a particular musical context. Seems not very likely to have a tune in 'half-whole diminished scale' per se. Then I see 'gypsy', 'flamenco'... if you run into music that is those things and really need the effect of your 'mixing' to be as musical as possible, it's a matter of knowledge. There won't be a key signature, although there may be a major or minor tendency. The names there are like "Japanese" a bit, in that one can't be sure what it is just from a name. But as to the question 'are all of them major/minor', definitely not.
I take 'harmonic mixing' to be a notion where you want to be aware of how jarring or not a change will be. You have a clause here that appears confused:
"next can be halftone on a side, in same major/minor signature or same key in a other major/minor signature"
Key and key signature agree, period. A half-tone change is what we call a 'distant' change, perhaps counterintuitively. The change from C major to F major is a 'close' relationship because only one fact is different. Semitone change, C major to C# major, is a difference of seven sharps. So if you're going to delve in, look at a circle of fifths visual. It's been pasted in in threads on this board many times.
Beyond that, we'll run into modes. A whole can of worms opens up here. But I'll restrict myself to showing by example. C major and F lydian are both all white notes on a regular keyboard. So they're written showing no flats or sharps. But F lydian is not in the key of C. F major and Bb lydian both have a Bb, in exception to all white notes. The key signature for F major shows the one flat, Bb. It's convenient and simple to write music from Bb lydian using that flat in a 'key signature', but it is _not_ key of F major.
So it may be useful for this "harmonic mixing" for key signature to become a primary consideration, but in terms of musicianship we must make a distinction. F and Bb are their respective 'tonics' or central, home note.
A number of scales in your list do not conform to key signature.
("Japanese" as a name isn't good, because I have no clue what it is. There will be many scales 'from Japan'. Equally "altered" brings no particular meaning.)
Chromatic is 12 notes with no center at all.
the 'diminished' scales are symmetrical. EG: C Db Eb E F# G# A Bb. Key is not indicated, it could well be anything. The usage of those belongs to a particular musical context. Seems not very likely to have a tune in 'half-whole diminished scale' per se. Then I see 'gypsy', 'flamenco'... if you run into music that is those things and really need the effect of your 'mixing' to be as musical as possible, it's a matter of knowledge. There won't be a key signature, although there may be a major or minor tendency. The names there are like "Japanese" a bit, in that one can't be sure what it is just from a name. But as to the question 'are all of them major/minor', definitely not.
I take 'harmonic mixing' to be a notion where you want to be aware of how jarring or not a change will be. You have a clause here that appears confused:
"next can be halftone on a side, in same major/minor signature or same key in a other major/minor signature"
Key and key signature agree, period. A half-tone change is what we call a 'distant' change, perhaps counterintuitively. The change from C major to F major is a 'close' relationship because only one fact is different. Semitone change, C major to C# major, is a difference of seven sharps. So if you're going to delve in, look at a circle of fifths visual. It's been pasted in in threads on this board many times.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 535 posts since 25 Nov, 2010
ou! thank you jancivil....
you elucidate it for me almost perfect! thanks!
so if i can ask about harmonic mixing specifically, and that beatport(i understand what you said, blues can tend to be major - for a example, but can you expand this a little?)
maybe electronic music artists really use just major/minor or -
they write song in whatever and after, just set songs standard as they like? if non-standard scale is in case? i mean, listen where mine scale tend to be?
or in this can be math??(can i write in blues and count some semitones where it should "tend"?)
sorry if you must double-post cause in the beginning you said something similar but honestly - i understand just ending:DD
thank you again all.... i very like professional taking members of this forum..
thanks..
you elucidate it for me almost perfect! thanks!
so if i can ask about harmonic mixing specifically, and that beatport(i understand what you said, blues can tend to be major - for a example, but can you expand this a little?)
maybe electronic music artists really use just major/minor or -
they write song in whatever and after, just set songs standard as they like? if non-standard scale is in case? i mean, listen where mine scale tend to be?
or in this can be math??(can i write in blues and count some semitones where it should "tend"?)
sorry if you must double-post cause in the beginning you said something similar but honestly - i understand just ending:DD
thank you again all.... i very like professional taking members of this forum..
thanks..
trust analog.... (owner of digital)
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Well, say 'blues'. Often major and minor is ambiguous on purpose. So there I think the center, home note is maybe the most important first consideration.
Same with 'gypsy' or 'flamenco'. Here we run into technical details, which kind of describe the ambiguities, that will be a lot of information to try and digest.
The term 'mixing' indicates to me some cross-fading and the like. So you have to be mindful of the "distant" thing, because of dissonances where overlapping, besides the perhaps jarring effect.*
IE: major/minor for certain music is not as salient as it is for other things. If you wanted to be really concerned and precise, super-careful there's a lot to know. I don't think right now getting involved in counting is the most musical approach and may be pretty distracting, kind of down the rabbit hole at least 'til you have more knowledge.
* But it became a thing in pop music to modulate up a semitone, it's 'energetic' or something, 'ascendant' or pushing. I find it usually nauseating, but there's an idea to note.
Same with 'gypsy' or 'flamenco'. Here we run into technical details, which kind of describe the ambiguities, that will be a lot of information to try and digest.
The term 'mixing' indicates to me some cross-fading and the like. So you have to be mindful of the "distant" thing, because of dissonances where overlapping, besides the perhaps jarring effect.*
IE: major/minor for certain music is not as salient as it is for other things. If you wanted to be really concerned and precise, super-careful there's a lot to know. I don't think right now getting involved in counting is the most musical approach and may be pretty distracting, kind of down the rabbit hole at least 'til you have more knowledge.
* But it became a thing in pop music to modulate up a semitone, it's 'energetic' or something, 'ascendant' or pushing. I find it usually nauseating, but there's an idea to note.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 535 posts since 25 Nov, 2010
ok, again thanks..
you know.. i want to mix something but it should be specifically mine stuff so not much crossfading - want to play mainly whole songs but i'am very confused about that harmonic mixing which i think fits mine style....
but please, really you don't have anything more to say about mine little problem?
if just - sending thanks forward:)
you know.. i want to mix something but it should be specifically mine stuff so not much crossfading - want to play mainly whole songs but i'am very confused about that harmonic mixing which i think fits mine style....
but please, really you don't have anything more to say about mine little problem?
if just - sending thanks forward:)
trust analog.... (owner of digital)
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
Oh. "harmonic mixing" I've seen as a 'DJ' concern. Having interest in terms of creating your own music, a little unexpected. Ok.
I don't know what your specific problem is, actually. There are two areas here where the procedures don't so much agree.
One is 'harmonic function' paradigm. Where you consider things within key structures... also see 'major/minor paradigm'. So you have for instance 'Dominant' harmonies with an expectation of tension, to be specifically handled in terms of the next harmony; "resolution". The harmonic minor within this paradigm is all about V as a major instead of the natural minor's v minor. But that very *scale* is used in and of itself in some music, enjoying the once suppressed augmented second for its expression.
That is more "modal" type of musical thought. Where the idea of change of key or a more primary interest in the harmonies isn't it.
A minor; 'V' is E G# B. Hence A B C D E F G# as your harmonic minor scale. Harmonic minor isn't a key, it's a way of handing 'minor key'. So while there well may be a signature with only the G#, we might best consider that outside of the convention of harmonic function. Key of A minor, G# is an alteration, which suits an important harmony. OTOH, you may have a more 'gypsy' type of idea that isn't concerned with modulation or even chords particularly but intervallically exactly 'harmonic minor'. It may have another name.
So, yeah, you could get ahold of these exotic-looking scales and compare intervals. Then you're going to notice that augmented second in things, that it's three semitones.
I would recommend enjoying these scales in themselves and getting to know them before you have a lot of concern about connecting to the next thing. Don't start to run just as you're getting on your feet.
I don't know what your specific problem is, actually. There are two areas here where the procedures don't so much agree.
One is 'harmonic function' paradigm. Where you consider things within key structures... also see 'major/minor paradigm'. So you have for instance 'Dominant' harmonies with an expectation of tension, to be specifically handled in terms of the next harmony; "resolution". The harmonic minor within this paradigm is all about V as a major instead of the natural minor's v minor. But that very *scale* is used in and of itself in some music, enjoying the once suppressed augmented second for its expression.
That is more "modal" type of musical thought. Where the idea of change of key or a more primary interest in the harmonies isn't it.
A minor; 'V' is E G# B. Hence A B C D E F G# as your harmonic minor scale. Harmonic minor isn't a key, it's a way of handing 'minor key'. So while there well may be a signature with only the G#, we might best consider that outside of the convention of harmonic function. Key of A minor, G# is an alteration, which suits an important harmony. OTOH, you may have a more 'gypsy' type of idea that isn't concerned with modulation or even chords particularly but intervallically exactly 'harmonic minor'. It may have another name.
So, yeah, you could get ahold of these exotic-looking scales and compare intervals. Then you're going to notice that augmented second in things, that it's three semitones.
I would recommend enjoying these scales in themselves and getting to know them before you have a lot of concern about connecting to the next thing. Don't start to run just as you're getting on your feet.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 535 posts since 25 Nov, 2010
ok, very thanks jancivil....
but if i can ask last thing from you - can you explain me by the shovel how i like you said compare intervals and decide if mine exotic-looking scale will be taken by a major/minor - i.e. by that math i should use, dude?
really last thing and i hope it will be ok.. just if you know(or someone, but you're so clever on these music theory so i think you will know this too:) just wanted to say you thanks for much explanation for this hitch)
i'am going to sleep, so good night everyone!
peace..
but if i can ask last thing from you - can you explain me by the shovel how i like you said compare intervals and decide if mine exotic-looking scale will be taken by a major/minor - i.e. by that math i should use, dude?
really last thing and i hope it will be ok.. just if you know(or someone, but you're so clever on these music theory so i think you will know this too:) just wanted to say you thanks for much explanation for this hitch)
i'am going to sleep, so good night everyone!
peace..
trust analog.... (owner of digital)