FL Studio 12 Released!

[218]

I mentioned this on the IL forums several times throughout the beta. I also think they made it completely counterintuitive.

we haven't made anything new here, the plugin database has been there since at least 2007 - you had 8 years to adapt to it. Made no sense to preserve 2 different list of plugins in the same app.

Lol sure. Im adapted:-) But you make it sound like you made no changes (or improvents) whatsoever. Im guessing that ppl talk about the pluginhandling for a reason? Anyways, im more than satisfied with the new version! <3

[The_Hidden_Goose]

i have to say...the new handling of plugins is f'ing horrible.

maybe im missing something...but all i want is the "add channel" drop down to actually list my plugins without spending 3 hours adding them individually by hand. i mean come on...can we at least get a batch function for this?

The menu is not (and has never been, in past versions) there to list hundreds of plugins, that's what the browser's big list is for.

The menu/picker is for *favorites*, and a plugin isn't likely to be one of your *favorites* if you can't be arsed to open it at least once, so that FL can save your *favorite* preset along with it, a screenshot, and put it in your defined category.

I felt like this at first when I started using the beta. Then, after using it for about a day, I realised that the point tony tony chopper made is absolutely true. If you're using something regularly, it's only one menu option to add it to the faves. I much prefer it now.

I also prefer that the favourites stay there after each update, instead of having to go through and recheck them all again.

I also really like the fact that you can save the state of the plugin as a "favourite".

Also, the latest new additions remain clearly visible until you rescan, instead of the previous way of making it highlighted in red for that session only. If you didn't put it your favourites quickly, then it you'd have to remember to do it next time. My memory is terrible, so this suits me down to the ground.

So yeah...felt weird at first because I was used to the old way, but made so much sense in practice.

There's not much I can complain about in v12. I was hoping the mod wheel would be set up automatically, but I've got a default template set up where I've already mapped it to the right cc with "omni" turned on, so job done. Wasn't hard - took about 30 seconds.

I haven't extensively loaded up all the plugins in the final version 12.0.1, but didn't have many problems with the previous betas that bridging didn't solve. I've never had much trouble with the bridging in FLS, like some people seem to, in fact I can't remember it ever not working.

The mixer is a dream to use in comparison to the previous one.

Some things being in different places took a bit of getting used to - kept going to the menu to try to add a new channel for a while! Nothing is so drastically different to make me feel there was a steep learning curve, and the changes that I can think of turned out to be fairly logical in the end.

All in all, I'm chuffed with v12!

[ENV1]

As far as the plugin handling goes. I mentioned this on the IL forums several times throughout the beta. I also think they made it completely counterintuitive.

I find counterintuitive to be an understatement. To me it looks more like 'lets look at all the possibilities and go with the least-practical thats technically possible'.

And no, im saying this not to insult, or to complain, or to offend. Im not one of these. Im saying this simply because this was exactly the thought that went through my mind at the time. Compare this way of handling plugins to say VSTHost and youll probably understand why i would have such a thought:

Initial Setup
- User specifies the path to the plugins folder
- Folder can be scanned normally or 'fast'
- Plugins are sorted into Instrument and FX categories regardless of the scanning mode
- Non-VST DLLs are ignored / not appearing in the list regardless of the scanning mode
- Even a normal (i.e. deep) scan doesnt take all that long

Usage
- User clicks Plugins button (or alternatively uses the rightclick menu)
- User gets a menu showing the exact file/folderstructure of their plugins folder
- User has full at-a-glance overview over the entire contents of their plugins folder
- Icons tell the user what is an Instrument and what is an Effect
- User simply looks, picks, clicks, and theres the plugin

No, theres no eye-candy there, but i guess if the objective is simplicity, good overview and fast action then thats not something that really matters. After all what good does it do if something is all dressed up visually while it fails to perform well in the areas that actually do matter?

At any rate, here i have simulated a plugins dir that is packed to the brim with plugins. As you can see, the dir contains 160 folders (each of which can contain any number of subfolders and sub-subfolders) and 160 'unfoldered' plugins, i.e. they are directly in the parent dir. Thats 320 objects, the file/folderstructure of the plugins dir is 100% intact, perfect overview over all plugins in the dir, and the user doesnt have to scroll a single line to pick any of them.

click for fullsize

[chaosWyrM]

i have to say...the new handling of plugins is f'ing horrible.

maybe im missing something...but all i want is the "add channel" drop down to actually list my plugins without spending 3 hours adding them individually by hand. i mean come on...can we at least get a batch function for this?

The menu is not (and has never been, in past versions) there to list hundreds of plugins, that's what the browser's big list is for.

The menu/picker is for *favorites*, and a plugin isn't likely to be one of your *favorites* if you can't be arsed to open it at least once, so that FL can save your *favorite* preset along with it, a screenshot, and put it in your defined category.

well, that may not be why its there, but thats how people use it. the browsers big list is impractical since if one does have "hundreds of plugins", then they would have to scroll through a giant list instead of seeing them all on a single page.

maybe the browser list and plugin picker is cool for some people, but i personally have no use for either, and as far as i see, its juts eye candy. i dont need a bunch little thumbnails of my plugins, what i need is a single page view of a list of all plugins so i can easily pick the one i want. as it is right now....my workflow is all messed up. where i used to be able to add a channel with my desired plugin in 2 seconds...it now takes up to 30 or 40 seconds while i trudge through seemingly endless clicks and scrolling.

all versions of fl studio up to this point were fine, i dont get why they had to remove functionality. though i guess technically they didnt...its just the functionality im trying to use has been made much more difficult, time consuming, and in my case...isnt working at all right now.

[alvfaria]

the more I use, the more disappointed I get

[koalaboy]

perfect overview over all plugins in the dir, and the user doesnt have to scroll a single line to pick any of them.

You're honestly happy to look through something like that ? You don't, maybe want your plugins organised by Company, or Type, or something ?

You're basically saying you want the workflow (and user experience) to be a wall of text.

Wow.

I mean, if it works for you, fine. I much prefer a bit of organisation - I already find the UAD 'all-in-one' approach to be chaotic enough and end up categorising them for all other DAWs.

I understand how some people don't want to 'organise', but we're not talking about a huge effort. I already have to spend time organising things so I have one VST directory that works nicely in all DAWs... why wouldn't I take the extra small effort to make it work pleasantly in FLStudio ?

Maybe Gol should just provide a plugin-picker text variant that displays a wall of text of every dll file in the vst directory, recursively. Perhaps that would solve the problem for those people who don't organise.

Personally, FLS12 is possibly my favourite release for a long time - the UI is really good (I love the magnetic windows), the flexibility for different devices is great and it *just works* (if you don't want a wall of text).

2c

[ENV1]

You're honestly happy to look through something like that ? You don't, maybe want your plugins organised by Company, or Type, or something ?

Organization? No, of course not. I simply make 160 copies of 2 plugins to fill the dir and leave it at that.

You're basically saying you want the workflow (and user experience) to be a wall of text.

No, thats not what im saying. And i also dont intend to elaborate on it because:

1) I think it is quite obvious that the screenshot is merely to illustrate that the menu allows you to pick even from a very large list of items without scrolling or other stunts,

2) I think it is equally obvious that you can create all the categories you want since the menu is after all a 1:1 representation of the content of your plugins folder.

[chaosWyrM]

perfect overview over all plugins in the dir, and the user doesnt have to scroll a single line to pick any of them.

You're honestly happy to look through something like that ? You don't, maybe want your plugins organised by Company, or Type, or something ?

You're basically saying you want the workflow (and user experience) to be a wall of text.

Wow.

I mean, if it works for you, fine. I much prefer a bit of organisation - I already find the UAD 'all-in-one' approach to be chaotic enough and end up categorising them for all other DAWs.

I understand how some people don't want to 'organise', but we're not talking about a huge effort. I already have to spend time organising things so I have one VST directory that works nicely in all DAWs... why wouldn't I take the extra small effort to make it work pleasantly in FLStudio ?

Maybe Gol should just provide a plugin-picker text variant that displays a wall of text of every dll file in the vst directory, recursively. Perhaps that would solve the problem for those people who don't organise.

Personally, FLS12 is possibly my favourite release for a long time - the UI is really good (I love the magnetic windows), the flexibility for different devices is great and it *just works* (if you don't want a wall of text).

2c

i know you werent asking me...but yes, thats precisely what i want to see.

i way prefer a wall of text. now as for the pic...i dont really like that per se...too many copies of the same thing, but over all thats what i want to see...a simple text list.

i have no interest in having my plugins organized any way other than basic alphabetically. seriously...who needs separate synth lists based on synthesis type? if other people have some sort of ocd that forces them to have to categorize everything into 37 different little compartments...ok but i shouldnt be forced to do it (lol...not really, thats just silly retaliation against the notion that people dont want to "organize"). i dont want to have to drill into categories and sub categories...just show me what i have and let me pick what i want.

it may not be a "huge effort" to you, but if i were to do it the way fl12 wants me to, it would take an entire afternoon...or longer, just to get them on the list.

[ENV1]

as for the pic...i dont really like that per se...too many copies of the same thing

Like i said, that was only to illustrate that even a gigantic list of items is not a problem.

(Of course noone has a folder that looks like that, i thought this goes without saying.)


Anyhow, heres one thats a little more realistic. It goes Category/Vendor/Plugin, which as you can see is no problem either, if such an order is desired. (Whatever you have in your plugins dir is what you will have in that menu.)

click for fullsize

[chaosWyrM]

lol...this just keeps getting dumber and dumber.

well at least im able to use the favorites checkboxes to get the plugs on the list now...however:

it doesnt auto sort effects and synths. come on dude...why have separate drop down menus if you arent going to separate whats in them??? why have the SAME list in 6 different places? ffs.

this is all basic low level functionality here...dont screw up the essential things required for something to work to make superfluous "features".

[tony tony chopper]

maybe the browser list and plugin picker is cool for some people, but i personally have no use for either, and as far as i see, its juts eye candy. i dont need a bunch little thumbnails of my plugins, what i need is a single page view of a list of all plugins so i can easily pick the one i want. as it is right now....my workflow is all messed up. where i used to be able to add a channel with my desired plugin in 2 seconds...it now takes up to 30 or 40 seconds while i trudge through seemingly endless clicks and scrolling.

all versions of fl studio up to this point were fine, i dont get why they had to remove functionality. though i guess technically they didnt...its just the functionality im trying to use has been made much more difficult, time consuming, and in my case...isnt working at all right now.

-nothing- has changed here. You used to have all plugins in a -treeview-, yes, in FL11 as well, only it was in a different window, but it was the same tree (same control actually) as the browser.

From that -tree-, you were picking your list of plugins.

The browser+picker combo is better, and that's why other sequencers now do it as well - working with "presets" instead of "plugins". Not only you had 8 years to adapt to that one, but you still have your old menus (which IMHO should have been ditched), with or without categories.

If you can't be bothered to build your own plugin's list, the good news is that you can ask someone else to do it for you - it's pretty much a bunch of files that everyone can exchange. And again that's not new, that has been there for 8 years.

The other good news is, FL11 is still there, you can still use it. It's never a good idea to preserve old crap for too long in order to please old users, because there's competition out there.

[tony tony chopper]

it doesnt auto sort effects and synths. come on dude...

guess what, FL 11 was not doing that EITHER.

Either you do a fast scan and it's not scanning, thus not categorizing plugins, thus it's fast - OR you're doing a deep scan, and then they're sorted.

The previous version was NOT doing anything different. NO app can know if a VST is a "generator" or an "effect" without opening it first.

[tony tony chopper]

it doesnt auto sort effects and synths. come on dude...

guess what, FL 11 was not doing that EITHER.

Either you do a fast scan and it's not scanning, thus not categorizing plugins, thus it's fast - OR you're doing a deep scan, and then they're sorted.

The previous version was NOT doing anything different. NO app can know if a VST is a "generator" or an "effect" without opening it first.

i have no interest in having my plugins organized any way other than basic alphabetically. seriously...who needs separate synth lists based on synthesis type?

The users who have asked for categories but didn't wanna use the picker/browser, yes it was a constant user request.

Who cares if you like categories or not? It's your system, your categories. You don't like them? Well, why did you install them in the first place? Delete them, make your own, or none at all, if you don't like sorting. Who cares?

[tony tony chopper]

Maybe Gol should just provide a plugin-picker text variant that displays a wall of text

even that, we do..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Cr7w ... JYNXc/view

(still with the same quick search filter, etc)

[chaosWyrM]

maybe the browser list and plugin picker is cool for some people, but i personally have no use for either, and as far as i see, its juts eye candy. i dont need a bunch little thumbnails of my plugins, what i need is a single page view of a list of all plugins so i can easily pick the one i want. as it is right now....my workflow is all messed up. where i used to be able to add a channel with my desired plugin in 2 seconds...it now takes up to 30 or 40 seconds while i trudge through seemingly endless clicks and scrolling.

all versions of fl studio up to this point were fine, i dont get why they had to remove functionality. though i guess technically they didnt...its just the functionality im trying to use has been made much more difficult, time consuming, and in my case...isnt working at all right now.

-nothing- has changed here. You used to have all plugins in a -treeview-, yes, in FL11 as well, only it was in a different window, but it was the same tree (same control actually) as the browser.

From that -tree-, you were picking your list of plugins.

The browser+picker combo is better, and that's why other sequencers now do it as well - working with "presets" instead of "plugins". Not only you had 8 years to adapt to that one, but you still have your old menus (which IMHO should have been ditched), with or without categories.

If you can't be bothered to build your own plugin's list, the good news is that you can ask someone else to do it for you - it's pretty much a bunch of files that everyone can exchange. And again that's not new, that has been there for 8 years.

The other good news is, FL11 is still there, you can still use it. It's never a good idea to preserve old crap for too long in order to please old users, because there's competition out there.

hmm....if nothing has changed, why is everything different? the browser+picker combo maybe be better for you...its next to useless for me. i know full well it was there the whole time, ive gladly never needed to look at it before.

the issue is that i DO NOT have my old menus, and in order to get them back i now have to spend untold hours of fiddling with it.