FL Studio 12 Released!

[chaosWyrM]

it doesnt auto sort effects and synths. come on dude...

guess what, FL 11 was not doing that EITHER.

Either you do a fast scan and it's not scanning, thus not categorizing plugins, thus it's fast - OR you're doing a deep scan, and then they're sorted.

The previous version was NOT doing anything different. NO app can know if a VST is a "generator" or an "effect" without opening it first.

it maybe didnt do it "automatically"...but at least the lists were separate in the first place.

[tony tony chopper]

hmm....if nothing has changed, why is everything different?

because you chose to install them differently. The installer offered you to install a flat or a categories startup database.

If you don't like categories, and yet you installed the categorized database, then just delete it & start over.
It's one thing to claim that you don't need categories, but another to claim that categories shouldn't be available only because you don't like them.

But trust me that if it had been my decision, the old shitty menu would be gone, now that would have been a change for you.


Say it takes you (let's be very generous) one hour (but it's not even gonna take you more time than it took you to write here - and yes you can even make plugins favorites without opening them, btw) to rebuild your giant list of plugins. Now once that hour has passed, *what* has changed for you exactly? How is your workflow different?

[tony tony chopper]

the issue is that i DO NOT have my old menus, and in order to get them back i now have to spend untold hours of fiddling with it.

oh ok, so if you're THAT user who has 25.000 plugins, I'm sorry for you.
But again, you can hire someone to do it for you.

it maybe didnt do it "automatically"...but at least the lists were separate in the first place.

nope, they were not. FL 11 couldn't do magic.

[chaosWyrM]

The users who have asked for categories but didn't wanna use the picker/browser, yes it was a constant user request.

Who cares if you like categories or not? It's your system, your categories. You don't like them? Well, why did you install them in the first place? Delete them, make your own, or none at all, if you don't like sorting. Who cares?

my point is that basic functionality has been severely sacrificed in order to make features that are in essence "fluff".

i didnt make the categories in the first place? where did you even get that from? youre missing the entire point here:

as it stands there is NO easy way to get a large list of plugins onto the add channel/effect or replace/insert drop down menus.

which was something that was easy as shit to do before.

[chaosWyrM]

it maybe didnt do it "automatically"...but at least the lists were separate in the first place.

nope, they were not. FL 11 couldn't do magic.

well then we are obviously talking about different things here, because they certainly are.

[tony tony chopper]

well then we are obviously talking about different things here, because they certainly are.

Nope, FL11 was listing effects & generators in the same lists. After a fast scan, no one can do it differently.
Both 11 & 12 have a deep scan (which IMHO is a crash fest for anyone who has more than 2 plugins - I don't understand how some sequencers start that by default, it's suicide).


All I know is that I find it weird to complain about the time it takes to list one plugin - does that mean you're never gonna use that plugin? What are the 2 clicks compared to the time you will spend using that plugin?
I don't know, Windows doesn't come preinstalled with my desktop icons. All I know is that I don't bother creating desktop icons for apps that I'm not even gonna open at least once.

i didnt make the categories in the first place? where did you even get that from?

the installer asks you which database you wanna pre-install, if you wanna install one. You have the choice of flat, categorized, or no database at all.
Anyway, you chose to install a database, but I'm sure that you know how to delete a folder from your HD.

as it stands there is NO easy way to get a large list of plugins onto the add channel/effect or replace/insert drop down menus.

yes, there is. You browse your plugins in the browser, right-click them, and "add to plugin database" (it won't open it, thus no preset, no thumbnail, but I guess you don't care).
That's what, 2 clicks per plugin? Wow that's horrible! It went from a single click to two!
How many clicks have you spent whining about it so far?

my point is that basic functionality has been severely sacrificed in order to make features that are in essence "fluff".

You're not the only user, and if you were browsing our forums, you'd know that categories in old menus have been a long-time request.
I don't even care for categories in old menus - categories have been there for 8 years in the picker. But there are many users who don't wanna use the picker, and yet want categories.

Now you should be able to easily understand that it's hard to add a plugin to a categorized database, without at least telling the software in which category it should go, right?
YET, we still offer you a way to quickly add a plugin to the root of the database, if you hate categories so much, and yet installed them.

How differently would you have done it? Not changing anything? But then you would have ignored user requests.. and you're a user.

[ENV1]

it doesnt auto sort effects and synths. come on dude...why have separate drop down menus if you arent going to separate whats in them??? why have the SAME list in 6 different places? ffs.

That was another thing i couldnt understand. VSTHost sorts just fine even when you fast-scan, with FL the stuff is all over the place, duplicated over and over, eliminating even the last bit of orientation.

And the funniest thing, (OK, not really funny), eventually i had a lot of duplicates everywhere, like PluginX and PluginX_(2), PluginY and PluginY_(2), etc. Thats the first time i saw something like this. Like i said, i dont want to be offensive, but in my opinion FLs plugin management is simply not befitting a host that is so well done otherwise. This can definitely be done better.

[chaosWyrM]

Maybe Gol should just provide a plugin-picker text variant that displays a wall of text

even that, we do..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Cr7w ... JYNXc/view

(still with the same quick search filter, etc)

awfull, but i could live with that...except HOW did they get there? its still the plugin picker which requires me to individually put things into.

maybe you dont understand the issue.

ok old way:

channels - more - refresh - tick boxes = list of synths

view mixer - select slot - more - refresh - tick boxes = list of effects

DONE

new way

refresh plug ins - deep scan (which takes FOREVER) - tick boxes = the same list in both generator AND effects

go through entire list and put all the synths individually into a "synth" category = list of synths

go through entire list and put all the effects individually into an "effect" category = list of effects

still see entire list of all plugins regardless of whether you select channel or effect when using the drop down menus.



what was a 2 step processes that was really nothing more than ticking boxes has become a 3 step process. part of one of the steps takes many many times longer than it used to (scanning) and the new added steps (placing in categories) is super time consuming.

im fully aware that i may be missing something here and it may be easier to accomplish what i want than im seeing...in fact i really REALLY hope thats the case. it remains still that this process was a breeze before and now is either entirely impossible or more complicated than it was.

[basslinemaster]

maybe the browser list and plugin picker is cool for some people, but i personally have no use for either, and as far as i see, its juts eye candy. i dont need a bunch little thumbnails of my plugins, what i need is a single page view of a list of all plugins so i can easily pick the one i want. as it is right now....my workflow is all messed up. where i used to be able to add a channel with my desired plugin in 2 seconds...it now takes up to 30 or 40 seconds while i trudge through seemingly endless clicks and scrolling.

I totally agree that that is a better way of doing things - a single page view. I do hate it when programs (Firefox's 'Bookmark this page window', for example) needlessly restrict the amount of space they use to show you a long list of files or folders, so you have to scroll and scroll to find anything. There is simply no reason for this - ease of use and good interface design dictate that you should allow the user to use the whole screen (or most of it) to display long lists of folders or files, it's much quicker to use that way.

Otherwise we might as well have FL 12 forced into a 300 x 300 pixel window and scroll around it... seriously. Taking things to their logical conclusion.

I really hate programs that use a drop down menu with a scrollbar to show maybe ten items, when there are thirty or forty, and the average screen could display a hundred at one time down the screen. SO irritating and lazy on the part of the programmers.

But I like a lot about FL Studio 12, and am very grateful for the lifetime free updates.

[tony tony chopper]

VSTHost sorts just fine even when you fast-scan,

you mean it's able to tell a generator from an effect, without opening it? I can't imagine any way to do that, except by using a self-updating and well maintained online database. Does it?

And the funniest thing, (OK, not really funny), eventually i had a lot of duplicates everywhere, like PluginX and PluginX_(2), PluginY and PluginY_(2), etc. Thats the first time i saw something like this. Like i said, i dont want to be offensive, but in my opinion FLs plugin management is simply not befitting a host that is so well done otherwise. This can definitely be done better.

If something has changed in the -listing- of plugins, it's not by design.
It's listing twice the same plugins while you only have 1 copy of the DLLs?

[basslinemaster]

perfect overview over all plugins in the dir, and the user doesnt have to scroll a single line to pick any of them.

You're honestly happy to look through something like that ? You don't, maybe want your plugins organised by Company, or Type, or something ?

You're basically saying you want the workflow (and user experience) to be a wall of text.

Wow.

Don't you know the name of the plugin you want to use? You would rather look for the COMPANY that made it? Who the hell organises their VSTs like that? How do you define 'type' for modern VSTs? Many of them use many different forms of synthesis, who on earth thinks, while writing a song, "Hmmm... I think I need an FM synth here...". I don't - I look at the NAMES of the VSTs I have (what you would call a 'wall of text' - scary...) and think "Hmmm... I think Dune 2 has some nice pads that will go well here".

You aren't one of those people who likes Microsoft's 'Ribbon', by any chance, are you?

[tony tony chopper]

new way

refresh plug ins - deep scan (which takes FOREVER) - tick boxes = the same list in both generator AND effects

that is just bad faith. FL11 wasn't doing magic, a deep scan is a deep scan, it does take forever. It basically does what you don't wanna do yourself, opening each plugin. You're just lying if you pretend that FL11 was doing fast deep scans.

And, are you pretending that after a deep scan, generators and effects are still not differenciated? If that's true, it's a bug, better report it, because that's the whole point of the deep scan.
But I'd rather think that there's no bug, only you being dishonest.


For others, the proper way is (if you don't wanna adapt to the database):
-install FL with the flat database option
-scan (fast or deep)
-browse each fav plugin in the browser, right-click and "add to plugin database"
yeah, not rocket science.

And if you do wanna use the database, you'll get thumbnails and your fav startup preset. And it's easy, SeamlessR made a nice video about it

[chaosWyrM]

new way

refresh plug ins - deep scan (which takes FOREVER) - tick boxes = the same list in both generator AND effects

that is just bad faith. FL11 wasn't doing magic, a deep scan is a deep scan, it does take forever. It basically does what you don't wanna do yourself, opening each plugin. You're just lying if you pretend that FL11 was doing fast deep scans.

And, are you pretending that after a deep scan, generators and effects are still not differenciated? If that's true, it's a bug, better report it, because that's the whole point of the deep scan.
But I'd rather think that there's no bug, only you being dishonnest.


For others, the proper way is (if you don't wanna adapt to the database):
-install FL with the flat database option
-scan (fast or deep)
-browse each fav plugin in the browser, right-click and "add to plugin database"
yeah, not rocket science.

i dont know what youre on about...i have never EVER needed to do a deep scan before and its always worked how im describing. scans before took max 20 seconds....as opposed to the 40 minutes its been scanning right now.

as for the whole right click add to plugin database thing....thats EXACTLY the problem...why would i want to go through an ass load of plugins individually right clicking each one and assigning it to something??

seriously? why? i never had to do that before and it was perfect.

[tony tony chopper]

i dont know what youre on about...i have never EVER needed to do a deep scan before and its always worked how im describing.

I think I know how FL works - there is just NO WAY FL wasn't listing generators & effects in the same lists, without a deep scan.

as for the whole right click add to plugin database thing....thats EXACTLY the problem...why would i want to go through an ass load of plugins individually right clicking each one and assigning it to something??

So, can we sum the problem up to adding a plugin now requiring 2 clicks instead of one?
And you don't find it silly to whine about that? What happened to "it was easy in FL11 and now it takes endless hours"?

[elassi]

seriously? why? i never had to do that before and it was perfect.

You'll be rewarded with better organisation. At least this is my opinion as a user who likes to sort the gear, read: instruments by type.

Just tried the new database for the first time, and yes, it comes across different, but it makes sense. And with a right-click and selecting "Windows Shell Menu" you can open the database directory and start moving things, deleting them, create subdirs...