Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

[andy-cytomic]

Any truth to the rumor that there will be a license transfer fee from here on out?

License transfers have never been free. I have granted a few without charge because I was being nice. The current license agreement does not allow for license transfers, I need to code an automated system before they are officially allowed.

The new license transfer system will be:

1) 6 month delay between most recent authorisation / upgrade and when you can sell
2) a fee of 30% of the full price of the plugin being sold

The second is required because I offer an existing customer discount of 30%, so license transfer fee needs to be at least this otherwise I would create a market for any customer to buy additional licenses and then on sell them cheaper than someone can buy them new!

There is another point that is also important, the license will be transferred as is, which includes the authorisation count, only the owner of the license will change. This means there needs to be disclosure and confirmation by the buyer that they know what the auth count is and what this means when buying a license. I will also suggest a maximum price that the buyer should pay based on the number of auths left, so no one gets ripped off.

I need to automate the entire process otherwise it just isn't worth supporting license transfers as there is too much fiddling and pain for everyone involved.

[DJMaytag]

The new license transfer system will be:

1) 6 month delay between most recent authorisation / upgrade and when you can sell
2) a fee of 30% of the full price of the plugin being sold

I think you're on the right track with this, but 30% seems excessive. I guess I got lucky a while back and picked up The Glue for a great price (not much more than the 30% you're noting.) 6 months should discourage people who buy plugins and turn around and post them for sale, and encourage people to actually use them.

The second is required because I offer an existing customer discount of 30%, so license transfer fee needs to be at least this otherwise I would create a market for any customer to buy additional licenses and then on sell them cheaper than someone can buy them new!

I think you should really enforce what you had told me as a second-hand owner of The Glue, that I'm a "license holder" and not a "customer," thus not eligible for a discount on the Drop. As far as I can see, I'm not currently eligible for the 30% discount on The Drop for being a The Glue "license holder."[/quote]

[KingTuck]

Just wondering here. Is there a reason to not restart the auth count for license transfers? Just principle or is it something to do with ensuring the C/P remains unexploited?

[andy-cytomic]

Just wondering here. Is there a reason to not restart the auth count for license transfers? Just principle or is it something to do with ensuring the C/P remains unexploited?

Each license is granted one authorisation per year with the first 5 pre-allocated. If a license is transferred then it will remain in whatever state is was in without alteration, this is a transfer of the license not a new purchase. If someone wants a new license they will need to buy one directly from Cytomic.

If I could somehow revoke authorisations already granted on a license then I could reset the auth count upon license transfer, but this is not possible on end customer file systems since they are not secure. The only way I know of to revoke authorisations securely is using a dongle, so if a majority of people would prefer all Cytomic plugins use dongles them please speak up - I doubt very much this is the case!

The other way I could kind of revoke licenses is to get the plugins to "call home" every week and check with the server that the license is still valid. That is even less appealing than a dongle to me.

If you have suggestions or comments on what I have proposed them please let me know, I want the fairest and best system possible.

[andy-cytomic]

The new license transfer system will be:

1) 6 month delay between most recent authorisation / upgrade and when you can sell
2) a fee of 30% of the full price of the plugin being sold

I think you're on the right track with this, but 30% seems excessive. I guess I got lucky a while back and picked up The Glue for a great price (not much more than the 30% you're noting.) 6 months should discourage people who buy plugins and turn around and post them for sale, and encourage people to actually use them.

Well we could take a vote on what people would prefer, a 30% discount if you have bought a full price plugin directly from Cytomic but then also a 30% license transfer fee, or some lower discount like 15%, and then a 15% license transfer fee. I am guessing a majority of customers would vote for the 30% discount. If I did such a pole I would not do it here on KVR, as this isn't a representative sample of typical customers - a majority of them are far too busy using Cytomic plugins in their productions to post very much here, let alone be interested in filling out some quiz here.

I am starting at 6 months, but I may lower that time depending on how things pan out, I may lower it to 3 months in the future. I would rather lower the time than the fee, since I want to give my existing customers as much of a discount as possible.

The second is required because I offer an existing customer discount of 30%, so license transfer fee needs to be at least this otherwise I would create a market for any customer to buy additional licenses and then on sell them cheaper than someone can buy them new!

I think you should really enforce what you had told me as a second-hand owner of The Glue, that I'm a "license holder" and not a "customer," thus not eligible for a discount on the Drop. As far as I can see, I'm not currently eligible for the 30% discount on The Drop for being a The Glue "license holder."

That won't really help here. I'm talking about someone that buys a full price plugin and keeps it. It would then be possible to buy a second license at 30% off, then sell that licence and continue doing this all the while keeping the first license untouched so they will always be eligible for the discount. So, hopefully you can now see, I will need to keep the same license transfer fee as I offer existing customer discount, and currently that is 30%.

[DJMaytag]

Ah, ok. That angle makes sense. I hadn't considered that.

How about applying a 30% transfer fee ONLY to plugins purchased at a 30% discount? That way someone who has only bought a single plugin isn't getting hit with what feels like a huge penalty. Either way though, I think a 6 month waiting period to transfer any license is a great idea.

[Nightpolymath]

There has to be a limit as to how many transfers are allowed for a single license. A license can change hands 5, 6, 7, or more times potentially adding more time required to field support questions with each "new" user when that time can be used for something more productive.

To add to that I have no problem going the dongle route since it simplifies use on multiple computers for me, preferably two dongle activations: one on soft dongle and another on hardware (as backup).

[jezjez]

Fair enough I say for the license transfer fee and 6 month waiting period, I'm not sure about not resetting the activation count though.
Unless of course it's possible to get more activations if needed by contacting support directly? Obviously years of research and development has gone into making these awesome plugins so stopping people trying to game the system and getting some compensation for license transfers is absolutely fair, but I think once someone has obtained a license whether new or used they shouldn't need to worry about not being able to use the product they've paid for due to being unfortunate enough to have their computer stolen/destroyed in a fire etc.
(Apologies in advance if I've misunderstood how activations work)

Having said that the 30% discount if you already own one product is very generous and makes it very attractive to just buy new anyway since you'll be getting further products at the same price you'd be paying second hand anyway.

[billcarroll]

I can't imagine why one would want to sell the Drop or the Glue.

[MFXxx]

I can't imagine why one would want to sell the Drop or the Glue.

I have to agree on this point. Also the plugin are so damn good value for money, especially if you get the 30% discount on the second!!!

I often think people forget that if they've had use out of a software product, there is no "wear or tear" so effectively the price they are asking for "in real terms" is less depriciated than a physical product that was being sold on. Just a thought

[blizzard]

I can't imagine why one would want to sell the Drop or the Glue.

me too!

[Colonel Flashback]

If you have suggestions or comments on what I have proposed them please let me know, I want the fairest and best system possible.

that's easy, check out Audio Damage

[padillac]

Ugh I liked this thread better when it was about filters and sound.

But to have it on record: the current system works fine, please don't switch to a dongle, that would suck.

And here's a thought experiment for you...

Someone uses Drop/Glue on their tracks. What happens next? THEY KEEP USING them. And they drool over your next plugin.

The only people selling these plugins are the ones not actually making music, so please do not punish your super happy customers by acquiescing to a vocal contingent of people who evidently don't appreciate your hard work.

[dayjob]

the new copy protection scheme worked fine for me both times.

i'm sure if there is some issue on some computers for some people that Andy will work in his usual methodical and diligent way to resolve those issues.

[andy-cytomic]

If you have suggestions or comments on what I have proposed them please let me know, I want the fairest and best system possible.

that's easy, check out Audio Damage

Since Audio Damage use a serial number system authorisation scheme anyone with a serial can install their software on any number of machines they want. You do need an account to download updates, so if the seller is smart enough to sell the entire account by changing the email address then it doesn't really matter if they allow license transfers or not. Also they don't have a permanent existing customer discount, so there is no need to have a minimum license transfer fee to cover this discount.