One Synth Challenge #75: PG-8X (Jasinski Wins!)

[Takao UK]

My first go at this competition! Done something sort of similar but with samples and got to say this was trickier.

Another Renoise entry:
https://soundcloud.com/takaouk/takao-uk ... -from-here

24 x PG8X

Renoise Native Fx:
6 x Compressor
20 x EQ10
4 x Maximizer
11 x Distortion
6 x Lo Fi Mat
100 x Filter (…?)
1 x BusComp
10 x Delay
3 x Exciter
4 x Reverb
2 x Cab Sim
1 x Multitap Delay
1 x Convolver

Free VST:
6 x TDR FeedBackCompressor II
1 x MEqualizer

Somehow managed to use 100 filters... think its the fact that the renoise eq doesn't have a low pass or high pass built in which is a bit annoying

Any feedback would be great!

[wagtunes]

My first go at this competition! Done something sort of similar but with samples and got to say this was trickier.

Another Renoise entry:
https://soundcloud.com/takaouk/takao-uk ... -from-here

24 x PG8X

Renoise Native Fx:
6 x Compressor
20 x EQ10
4 x Maximizer
11 x Distortion
6 x Lo Fi Mat
100 x Filter (…?)
1 x BusComp
10 x Delay
3 x Exciter
4 x Reverb
2 x Cab Sim
1 x Multitap Delay
1 x Convolver

Free VST:
6 x TDR FeedBackCompressor II
1 x MEqualizer

Somehow managed to use 100 filters... think its the fact that the renoise eq doesn't have a low pass or high pass built in which is a bit annoying

Any feedback would be great!

Um, just out of curiosity, did you bother reading the rules of the competition?

Distortion FX are clearly not allowed. Anything that changes the timber of the sounds of the synth itself is not allowed, so I would also think the 100 filters are also not allowed.

Reading rules will certainly help in the future. In the meantime, you might want to consider removing most of those FX or redo your track.

[psmacmur]

Distortion and filters are normally allowed unless abused.

[wagtunes]

Distortion and filters are normally allowed unless abused.

Since when? Has anybody actually READ the rules of the OSC? I have. Nowhere does it say that distortion or filters are allowed. It specifically says nothing that changes the natural timber of the synth sound itself.

How do distortions NOT do that?

And have you SEEN what he's put on his track?

Have you LISTENED to his track?

No way in hell a PG8X sounds like that. No way.

Maybe that's why my tracks sound like crap every month. They're basically done thread bare as far as FX go. A little compression, limiting and maybe a delay on the leads.

Again, please read the rules and tell me where the track above falls anywhere within the lines of those rules.

Because if it does, next month's entry is going to be balls to the walls FX.

** EDIT ** This is taken DIRECTLY from the rules page.

Any effect that transform the sounds to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth is not allowed.

[stone1]

Hmm CPU usage here is okay on a recent Macbook Pro. Freezing is fine if it's a whole phrase (ideally it's the entire track, probably okay if it's like 8 bars or more; not okay to sample single hits - this synth is an example why, it's difficult to make a consistent sound - e.g. kick). So how does the Renoise sampling work in regard to that?

Yep - I think the Renoise freezing is probably not allowed then. Seems I have got the CPU usage more under control with a longer latency and setting CPU scaling to performance.. Anyway, I am probably only going to do a simple chiptune-style song so won't need too many instances!

[Takao UK]

Um, just out of curiosity, did you bother reading the rules of the competition?

Distortion FX are clearly not allowed. Anything that changes the timber of the sounds of the synth itself is not allowed, so I would also think the 100 filters are also not allowed.

Reading rules will certainly help in the future. In the meantime, you might want to consider removing most of those FX or redo your track.

Yes I did read the rules. I only used the distortion to add a bit of grit to some of the sounds so they would cut through the mix. Is this not allowed?

Is automating filters for transitions not allowed too? As there would be a few things i'd probably have to change there. In general however filters were just used as EQs to high pass and low pass and clean up the mix.

Effects (external plugins):
- Any type of modulation effect like chorus, phaser, flanger, rotary etc is not allowed.
However, if another type of effect (like delay or reverb for example) has modulation as a secondary effect,
it can be used, but the modulation usage must be minimal.
- Effects that pitch the sound are not allowed. That means, for example: Pitched Delays are not allowed, or Tapestops, etc.
- Any effect that transform the sounds to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth is not allowed.
- DAW effects are allowed, as are 3rd party effects if they are freeware and easily available (this does not include: plugin betas, demo, magware or freeware that expire UNLESS a special exception for that month is stated)
- Any kind of effect already IN the synth can of course be used freely.

Didn't use any modulation fx so thought it was o.k but any clarification would be great. I used FX but i'd say the sounds are definitely recognisable from the synth

[stone1]

Distortion and filters are normally allowed unless abused.

Since when? Has anybody actually READ the rules of the OSC? I have. Nowhere does it say that distortion or filters are allowed. It specifically says nothing that changes the natural timber of the synth sound itself.

How do distortions NOT do that?

And have you SEEN what he's put on his track?

Have you LISTENED to his track?

No way in hell a PG8X sounds like that. No way.

Maybe that's why my tracks sound like crap every month. They're basically done thread bare as far as FX go. A little compression, limiting and maybe a delay on the leads.

Again, please read the rules and tell me where the track above falls anywhere within the lines of those rules.

Because if it does, next month's entry is going to be balls to the walls FX.

** EDIT ** This is taken DIRECTLY from the rules page.

Any effect that transform the sounds to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth is not allowed.

Although I'm pretty new here, I think you are right. Distortion should not be allowed according to my reading of the rules. I have also been wondering if EQ is really OK. At the moment, I have added an EQ to increase the top end of the snare in my track - but it seems a bit like cheating so I will probably remove it and try to get a better sound out of the synth.

[stone1]

Yes I did read the rules. I only used the distortion to add a bit of grit to some of the sounds so they would cut through the mix. Is this not allowed?

Is automating filters for transitions not allowed too? As there would be a few things i'd probably have to change there. In general however filters were just used as EQs to high pass and low pass and clean up the mix.

I would be interested to know this too.. I think someone used external automated filters in their acid track last month and it did seem a bit against the spirit of the thing.. Although there was also a filter built into that synth, so difficult to know.

[wagtunes]

Um, just out of curiosity, did you bother reading the rules of the competition?

Distortion FX are clearly not allowed. Anything that changes the timber of the sounds of the synth itself is not allowed, so I would also think the 100 filters are also not allowed.

Reading rules will certainly help in the future. In the meantime, you might want to consider removing most of those FX or redo your track.

Yes I did read the rules. I only used the distortion to add a bit of grit to some of the sounds so they would cut through the mix. Is this not allowed?

Is automating filters for transitions not allowed too? As there would be a few things i'd probably have to change there. In general however filters were just used as EQs to high pass and low pass and clean up the mix.

Effects (external plugins):
- Any type of modulation effect like chorus, phaser, flanger, rotary etc is not allowed.
However, if another type of effect (like delay or reverb for example) has modulation as a secondary effect,
it can be used, but the modulation usage must be minimal.
- Effects that pitch the sound are not allowed. That means, for example: Pitched Delays are not allowed, or Tapestops, etc.
- Any effect that transform the sounds to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth is not allowed.
- DAW effects are allowed, as are 3rd party effects if they are freeware and easily available (this does not include: plugin betas, demo, magware or freeware that expire UNLESS a special exception for that month is stated)
- Any kind of effect already IN the synth can of course be used freely.

Didn't use any modulation fx so thought it was o.k but any clarification would be great. I used FX but i'd say the sounds are definitely recognisable from the synth

Here's all I know. I listened to about a minute of your track and there is no way in hell a PG8X makes some of those sounds.

Look, as far as I'm concerned, I think the whole restricted FX section of the rules is ridiculous. But either we follow them or we don't have them.

IMO, it seems there is way too much of a gray area here. What's okay? What's not okay? How do we REALLY know? And who's going to decide if they feel your track has "abused" FX? What is abuse anyway?

Bottom line: Your track doesn't sound like what a PG8X can create outside of some compression and a little delay and reverb. I can clearly pick out where in the track you used distortion. It's so obvious as to hit somebody over the head with a hammer.

But like I said, personally, i couldn't care less. But we all need to be on the same level playing field. And if I have no way of knowing what that playing field is because when I read...

Any effect that transform the sounds to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth is not allowed.

...and then I hear something that has clearly been significantly altered...well, I honestly don't know what to do with this competition anymore.

Know what I put on my entry for this month, that I'm just finishing up.

2 compressors
4 Delays
1 Limiter

That's it. And guess what? It sounds like a PG8X.

Yours doesn't.

But whatever. It's no skin off my nose.

I just want to know what the "real" rules are.

[z.prime]

Guys, don't sweat it too much. Distortion is fine as long as it's minimal. The key here is "unrecognizable as being from the synth". This is a competition to make the best song using a single synth. If there were no fx allowed, the tracks would be much worse, it's as simple as that. The spirit of the competition is to push the synth to it's limits - to use it for all the sounds, but without some basic mixing and mastering sort of things like EQ there simply wouldn't be good results. So, don't use modulation effects, as stated in the rules. Filters are allowed as they're basically just EQ. But not _too_ extreme such that you can't recognize the original sound from the synth, as simple as that. There's a gray area and some will dock points for too many effects, some won't. Use your best judgement, and certainly err on the side of letting the synth through.

I will say that 100 filters seems a bit excessive... but who knows...

[Takao UK]

Distortion and filters are normally allowed unless abused.

Since when? Has anybody actually READ the rules of the OSC? I have. Nowhere does it say that distortion or filters are allowed. It specifically says nothing that changes the natural timber of the synth sound itself.

No where does it say they are NOT allowed either. Only modulation effects and things that affect pitch are specifically banned

Have you LISTENED to his track?

No way in hell a PG8X sounds like that. No way.

What sounds in particular are rustling your jimmies wagsy? Maybe we can talk about what I've done to the sound and I can adjust if they are not up to par

Maybe that's why my tracks sound like crap every month. They're basically done thread bare as far as FX go. A little compression, limiting and maybe a delay on the leads.

Could be that... there are other factors which contribute to bad tune making however.

[wagtunes]

Guys, don't sweat it too much. Distortion is fine as long as it's minimal. The key here is "unrecognizable as being from the synth". This is a competition to make the best song using a single synth. If there were no fx allowed, the tracks would be much worse, it's as simple as that. The spirit of the competition is to push the synth to it's limits - to use it for all the sounds, but without some basic mixing and mastering sort of things like EQ there simply wouldn't be good results. So, don't use modulation effects, as stated in the rules. Filters are allowed as they're basically just EQ. But not _too_ extreme such that you can't recognize the original sound from the synth, as simple as that. There's a gray area and some will dock points for too many effects, some won't. Use your best judgement, and certainly err on the side of letting the synth through.

I will say that 100 filters seems a bit excessive... but who knows...

Fine. Thank you for clearing this up.

Starting next month, I will do what everybody else is doing.

[wagtunes]

Sorry, my mistake.

My track has...

4 delays
1 Limiter on the output buss.

That's it.

And you know what? It sounds pretty damn good considering it's essentially bare naked. In fact, I may just submit it the way it is now.

[Takao UK]

Sorry, my mistake.

My track has...

4 delays
1 Limiter on the output buss.

That's it.

And you know what? It sounds pretty damn good considering it's essentially bare naked. In fact, I may just submit it the way it is now.

Even though you're annoying you've inspired me to mix down my track with no fx apart from reverb, delays and compression

[wagtunes]

Sorry, my mistake.

My track has...

4 delays
1 Limiter on the output buss.

That's it.

And you know what? It sounds pretty damn good considering it's essentially bare naked. In fact, I may just submit it the way it is now.

Even though you're annoying you've inspired me to mix down my track with no fx apart from reverb, delays and compression

Hey, don't do anything on my account. You heard Z. You're perfectly within your rights to do what you did. I was wrong and you were right.

I may be annoying but I'll always admit when I'm wrong.