One Synth Challenge #74: DEXED (Jasinski Wins!)

[Gamma-UT]

And then of course there are those DAWs that just HAPPEN to come with killer plugs that, by rights, should be paid for plugs (that's how good they are) but because we don't own that "good" DAW but some piece of crap with nothing decent in it, we have to settle for inferior plugs.

The whole plugin issue, IMO, is handled wrong. If a certain type of FX (EQ, Compression, Limiting, Delay, Reverb, etc.) is allowed, then any of those plugs should be allowed, paid or not. What's the big difference since not everybody has access to the same plugs anyway if we don't all use the same DAWs?

Back in Ye Olden Dayze, all DAW plugs were out - you could not use any processing outside the synth that was not available to someone else on the same platform, and that included EQ and compression. I remember having to hunt round for a flexible EQ for a while as, on OS X, the field was not as wide as it is now.

At that point, when Tattiemannie was running the comp, the emphasis was on keeping the competition pretty stripped down and focusing on the synth itself rather than the idea of a completed, mastered track. This shifted over time and I must admit after some time out being a bit surprised on entering again, maybe about a year ago, that DAW effects were deemed OK. I think there might have been a phase when DAW EQ was OK but everything else had to be freeware and, of course, no modulation. The no-modulation FX rule is pretty much a hangover from those days and IMO could be revisited in the light of all the other changes.

The trouble is you have to restrict the playing field in some way to give everyone a fighting chance against an experienced player with all the toys. Making freeware-only a solid rule and ruling out entire classes of FX are ways to achieve that.

[wagtunes]

And then of course there are those DAWs that just HAPPEN to come with killer plugs that, by rights, should be paid for plugs (that's how good they are) but because we don't own that "good" DAW but some piece of crap with nothing decent in it, we have to settle for inferior plugs.

The whole plugin issue, IMO, is handled wrong. If a certain type of FX (EQ, Compression, Limiting, Delay, Reverb, etc.) is allowed, then any of those plugs should be allowed, paid or not. What's the big difference since not everybody has access to the same plugs anyway if we don't all use the same DAWs?

Back in Ye Olden Dayze, all DAW plugs were out - you could not use any processing outside the synth that was not available to someone else on the same platform, and that included EQ and compression. I remember having to hunt round for a flexible EQ for a while as, on OS X, the field was not as wide as it is now.

At that point, when Tattiemannie was running the comp, the emphasis was on keeping the competition pretty stripped down and focusing on the synth itself rather than the idea of a completed, mastered track. This shifted over time and I must admit after some time out being a bit surprised on entering again, maybe about a year ago, that DAW effects were deemed OK. I think there might have been a phase when DAW EQ was OK but everything else had to be freeware and, of course, no modulation. The no-modulation FX rule is pretty much a hangover from those days and IMO could be revisited in the light of all the other changes.

The trouble is, you have to restrict the playing field in some way to give everyone a fighting chance against an experienced player with all the toys. Making freeware-only a solid rule and ruling out entire classes of FX are ways to achieve that.

Well, I say we go back to the "ye olden days." No FX, period. Only whatever the synth can produce. That absolutely puts everybody on the same level playing field.

Right now, we have nothing even close to that.

[Gamma-UT]

Well, I say we go back to the "ye olden days." No FX, period. Only whatever the synth can produce. That absolutely puts everybody on the same level playing field.

Right now, we have nothing even close to that.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself in a minority. I think the rules need to be altered clearly either in one direction (more freedom over distortion, mod-FX) or the other (the spartan approach) or else this FX-grey-area problem is going to keep rearing its head.

I'd be totally happy with the spartan option, but my reading of recent comments is that more people favour the more relaxed approach if not going the whole hog and making distortion etc fully OK.

And at a personal level, work pressures mean entering the competition only rarely so I'm not going to try to push it.

[H-man]

Well, I say we go back to the "ye olden days." No FX, period. Only whatever the synth can produce. That absolutely puts everybody on the same level playing field.

Right now, we have nothing even close to that.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself in a minority. I think the rules need to be altered clearly either in one direction (more freedom over distortion, mod-FX) or the other (the spartan approach) or else this FX-grey-area problem is going to keep rearing its head.

I'd be totally happy with the spartan option, but my reading of recent comments is that more people favour the more relaxed approach if not going the whole hog and making distortion etc fully OK.

And at a personal level, work pressures mean entering the competition only rarely so I'm not going to try to push it.

I just ...I mean ...FFS EQs do not win OSC. Comps do not win OSC. Hell, even reverbs do not win OSC. One can win OSC with an EDM track, it just has to be awesome. One can win the OSC with a synth Orchestra track, it just has to be awesome. One can win the OSC with a DnB / emo/ Dixieland/ grind core track, it just has to be awesome. Hell, one can even win the OSC with some bat-shit crazy experimental track ...it just has to be awesome!!!

My point .....bring it!

[wagtunes]

Well, I say we go back to the "ye olden days." No FX, period. Only whatever the synth can produce. That absolutely puts everybody on the same level playing field.

Right now, we have nothing even close to that.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself in a minority. I think the rules need to be altered clearly either in one direction (more freedom over distortion, mod-FX) or the other (the spartan approach) or else this FX-grey-area problem is going to keep rearing its head.

I'd be totally happy with the spartan option, but my reading of recent comments is that more people favour the more relaxed approach if not going the whole hog and making distortion etc fully OK.

And at a personal level, work pressures mean entering the competition only rarely so I'm not going to try to push it.

I just ...I mean ...FFS EQs do not win OSC. Comps do not win OSC. Hell, even reverbs do not win OSC. One can win OSC with an EDM track, it just has to be awesome. One can win the OSC with a synth Orchestra track, it just has to be awesome. One can win the OSC with a DnB / emo/ Dixieland/ grind core track, it just has to be awesome. Hell, one can even win the OSC with some bat-shit crazy experimental track ...it just has to be awesome!!!

My point .....bring it!

I argue that it's hard to "bring it" without some enhancements on the synths's sound, especially if the synth comes with absolutely no onboard FX whatsoever.

Do you REALLY think any of the Dexed tracks would sound a tenth as good without FX?

You can only bring it so far with a dry synth.

[Gamma-UT]

One can win the OSC with a DnB / emo/ Dixieland/ grind core track, it just has to be awesome.

Without distortion, DnB and grind core are going to be tricky. But some people are going into the competition thinking the level of distortion needed is against the rules. That's what needs sorting out. I'm sorry if pointing it out offends you.

[z.prime]

That's true about FX vs. not in terms of being able to make better tracks. However, having some super-special DAW EQ or reverb or whatever really isn't much of an advantage, honestly. The free FX are pretty close to being on par with even the best commercial ones, just usually with a less polished interface.

I've talked with Brian every now and then about the possibility of doing a special month with no FX and a special month with all FX allowed, no holds barred. Maybe there would be a consensus doing one or both of these as a 1-time thing and see how it goes. My gut feeling is: limiting to just the synth and no FX will result in significantly fewer people joining and significantly worse tracks (of course this is highly dependent on the synth - e.g. maybe it has built-in eq or something to mitigate some of the inability to mix). The overall mix and master would be awful with everyone's tracks going over 0; allowing all FX would result in some amazing entries albeit with sounds "unrecognizable from the synth".

[H-man]

Well, I say we go back to the "ye olden days." No FX, period. Only whatever the synth can produce. That absolutely puts everybody on the same level playing field.

Right now, we have nothing even close to that.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself in a minority. I think the rules need to be altered clearly either in one direction (more freedom over distortion, mod-FX) or the other (the spartan approach) or else this FX-grey-area problem is going to keep rearing its head.

I'd be totally happy with the spartan option, but my reading of recent comments is that more people favour the more relaxed approach if not going the whole hog and making distortion etc fully OK.

And at a personal level, work pressures mean entering the competition only rarely so I'm not going to try to push it.

I just ...I mean ...FFS EQs do not win OSC. Comps do not win OSC. Hell, even reverbs do not win OSC. One can win OSC with an EDM track, it just has to be awesome. One can win the OSC with a synth Orchestra track, it just has to be awesome. One can win the OSC with a DnB / emo/ Dixieland/ grind core track, it just has to be awesome. Hell, one can even win the OSC with some bat-shit crazy experimental track ...it just has to be awesome!!!

My point .....bring it!

I argue that it's hard to "bring it" without some enhancements on the synths's sound, especially if the synth comes with absolutely no onboard FX whatsoever.

Do you REALLY think any of the Dexed tracks would sound a tenth as good without FX?

You can only bring it so far with a dry synth.

Steven, don't side-track the augment bro. Dexed is exactly the type of VSTi that benefits from a little enhancement by way of reverb and delay. But don' tell me that a track will win because it used the right delay or the right eq or whatever. I'm not buying that

Again, style,creativity, production and delivery will win out. How do I know this??? Because at least 55 people who have been banging their head against Dexed for 30 days will determine the result.

Perfect system ..right??

[H-man]

One can win the OSC with a DnB / emo/ Dixieland/ grind core track, it just has to be awesome.

Without distortion, DnB and grind core are going to be tricky. But some people are going into the competition thinking the level of distortion needed is against the rules. That's what needs sorting out. I'm sorry if pointing it out offends you.

No, it doesn't but ...really? ...FM outside of perfect octaves can get pretty wild. Switch off ratios and get loose with the detune and there is a lot of sonic territory there to explore

[H-man]

That's true about FX vs. not in terms of being able to make better tracks. However, having some super-special DAW EQ or reverb or whatever really isn't much of an advantage, honestly. The free FX are pretty close to being on par with even the best commercial ones, just usually with a less polished interface.

I've talked with Brian every now and then about the possibility of doing a special month with no FX and a special month with all FX allowed, no holds barred. Maybe there would be a consensus doing one or both of these as a 1-time thing and see how it goes. My gut feeling is: limiting to just the synth and no FX will result in significantly fewer people joining and significantly worse tracks (of course this is highly dependent on the synth - e.g. maybe it has built-in eq or something to mitigate some of the inability to mix). The overall mix and master would be awful with everyone's tracks going over 0; allowing all FX would result in some amazing entries albeit with sounds "unrecognizable from the synth".

One Ping Only + Ubik = endless possibilities

[Reefius]

The solution: only freeware DAW's and plugins allowed. Also no grey area, so any FX is allowed as long as it's free

With the current rules it is for example impossible to create a metal track, because this kind of music is based on heavy use of overdrive/distortion. I really want to make a metal track for the next OSC

[Gamma-UT]

No, it doesn't but ...really? ...FM outside of perfect octaves can get pretty wild. Switch off ratios and get loose with the detune and there is a lot of sonic territory there to explore

Yeah, and cross-mod will do something in that direction in PG8. But not every synth has those facilities. And it is significantly easier to use distortion than to work out how non-integer modulators are going to affect an FM sound – time that could be used to work on the rest of the track. That's why I think some clarity over the rules on distortion etc need fixing. I don't care which way it goes but the current situation isn't working that well because you are seeing these arguments over FX use.

[wagtunes]

Well, I say we go back to the "ye olden days." No FX, period. Only whatever the synth can produce. That absolutely puts everybody on the same level playing field.

Right now, we have nothing even close to that.

Don't be surprised if you find yourself in a minority. I think the rules need to be altered clearly either in one direction (more freedom over distortion, mod-FX) or the other (the spartan approach) or else this FX-grey-area problem is going to keep rearing its head.

I'd be totally happy with the spartan option, but my reading of recent comments is that more people favour the more relaxed approach if not going the whole hog and making distortion etc fully OK.

And at a personal level, work pressures mean entering the competition only rarely so I'm not going to try to push it.

I just ...I mean ...FFS EQs do not win OSC. Comps do not win OSC. Hell, even reverbs do not win OSC. One can win OSC with an EDM track, it just has to be awesome. One can win the OSC with a synth Orchestra track, it just has to be awesome. One can win the OSC with a DnB / emo/ Dixieland/ grind core track, it just has to be awesome. Hell, one can even win the OSC with some bat-shit crazy experimental track ...it just has to be awesome!!!

My point .....bring it!

I argue that it's hard to "bring it" without some enhancements on the synths's sound, especially if the synth comes with absolutely no onboard FX whatsoever.

Do you REALLY think any of the Dexed tracks would sound a tenth as good without FX?

You can only bring it so far with a dry synth.

Steven, don't side-track the augment bro. Dexed is exactly the type of VSTi that benefits from a little enhancement by way of reverb and delay. But don' tell me that a track will win because it used the right delay or the right eq or whatever. I'm not buying that

Again, style,creativity, production and delivery will win out. How do I know this??? Because at least 55 people who have been banging their head against Dexed for 30 days will determine the result.

Perfect system ..right??

No, the right delay or EQ or whatever won't win an OSC. If your song is garbage, if your sound selection is poor or doesn't fit what you're trying to do, if your raw mixing skills are crap (like mine are) you have no chance no matter what FX you put on your track.

But fix all of what I just mentioned and put it on a track with poor quality FX and your track suffers considerably and you STILL won't win. You'll do better than with a poor song and mix and sound selection, but you still won't win. I will put money on that.

[Gamma-UT]

One Ping Only + Ubik = endless possibilities

It's been done. With only One Ping Only, some delay and a ton of automation IIRC: https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/osc-1-synth1

Fourth track - Jetsam.

The OSC is slightly mistitled - it was originally a free-for-all but most people opted for Synth1.

[z.prime]

I think some clarity over the rules on distortion etc need fixing. I don't care which way it goes but the current situation isn't working that well because you are seeing these arguments over FX use.

Not sure what you mean. The current situation is fine. Use distortion keep the effect minimal. What's hard to understand about that?