One Synth Challenge #75: PG-8X (Jasinski Wins!)

[Taron]

One really has to give that to the PG-8X: It screams 80's in perfect authenticity!
Great job, PFD!

@mmoncur
a 5 layered kick?!? ...uhm, have you avoided any EQ by any chance? I noticed that you can have quite a range of strong and nuanced kicks between env speeds, filter settings from a single instance with some aggressive EQing. Sounds to me like you might've gotten a wee bit carried away there?! ...but I really want to hear that!

[mmoncur]

@mmoncur
a 5 layered kick?!? ...uhm, have you avoided any EQ by any chance? I noticed that you can have quite a range of strong and nuanced kicks between env speeds, filter settings from a single instance with some aggressive EQing. Sounds to me like you might've gotten a wee bit carried away there?! ...but I really want to hear that!

Well, yes, I'll admit I'm obsessive about kicks. It was originally 8 layers, but that's just because I grabbed every decent kick sound people have posted here and a couple I made and put them in an instrument rack so I could blend as needed. This is something I do sometimes with samples, and it was easier than trying to fine-tune one good kick in PG-8X.

It's down to 4 layers now: A main kick body, a low boom, and two 'clicks' for the top end. The last three are pretty quiet, they just add nuance to the main kick. All of them are being EQ'd to bring out their best sounds.

[Taron]

Can't wait to hear that kick-spectacle!

[Mojo42]

Hi all,
sad news. I have to give up

I started a track on my laptop, because it is at least a bit more capable than my pc, but there is also no use. I have 1:40 minutes, 9 instances and now I have to face game over.

After 8 instances already the first instance got muted by Cubase and when I had 9 instances I dared to use the Cubase Equalizer for to improve the sound of my kick and that was my final mistake.

I took off all automation, freezed simply all instances (simply for to look and see what will happen) and despite that the track stuttered and several instances got partially muted and that was too much for me. The point is: I cannot freeze all instances, because I am working at 4 of them. I am composing right now, I need this instances to be active now. Apart from that I have seen that even freezing all instances is no improvement. I also need automation and last but not least I need effects and equalizer. And I just have got a half track and all this problems are already so heavy that I have to give up. I also can`t export instances to audio, because I`m still working at them.

It seems that I just can enter OSC when I buy a new and very much better pc or when you select someday a Synth with very, very low CPU usage. That would be my only chance I guess.

I will finish the track that I have started for this OSC, because I like it, but I have to chose another Synth for this project. Probably Sylenth1 which I should marry I guess

Okay, on the plus side: Now I have got some off time for listening music again

Good luck to you all

I will be your audience (only) again. But, I have tried it at least and started a new track, that`s also cool. The work was not in vain, I just have to exchange the Synth. Oh and I could use Groove Agent for the drums *lol* don`t be envy

[Taron]

No, man, don't throw in the towel just like that!
You should rethink your approach and try to make a true composition with music in focus and not so much dazzling sound effects, you know. Nobody is going to rip your head off for just having some melodic fun, you know!
You are already showing so much investment and engagement here, I think it would be a real shame, if you didn't give it an alternative go!

Somebody was early on posting an improvisation that used like 4 instances, if I remember correctly, and it sounded awesome and was/is truly enjoyable.

I know some of those musical sculptures here are already quite intimidating, but I'd just step out of that race and into basking mode!

You can do it!

[Mojo42]

No, man, don't throw in the towel just like that!

Girl

You should rethink your approach and try to make a true composition with music in focus and not so much dazzling sound effects, you know. Nobody is going to rip your head off for just having some melodic fun, you know!

What do you think I was doing here??? I made a true composition with music in focus. I used not one single effect until now and also no Arps. I composed a melody, a cool bass line, played chords, 2 Pads, Hihat, Kick, 2 Pads of the beginning of the track as an intro and that was all so far. I used automation for level and panning and I had only 1 insert effect an equalizer for the kick.

You are already showing so much investment and engagement here, I think it would be a real shame, if you didn't give it an alternative go!
Somebody was early on posting an improvisation that used like 4 instances, if I remember correctly, and it sounded awesome and was/is truly enjoyable.

Thanks for trying to motivate me, but my problem is much deeper. I started to exchange PG-8X with Sylenth1 and the sh*t happened again. I mean that sh*t that Cubase mutes whole instances or single midi events by itself.

I mean Cubase mutes without I have pushed the mute button and I can`t undo this!!!!

I googled this problem and dadaaaaaaaaaaaa: You can read it by yourself: It is a Cubase bug and this means I´m finally sick of Cubase. One can`t produce a track with this software, it is impossible. With such a bug which mutes whole instances or single midi events it is not possible to produce music. I will install Tracktion next, it is for free now. I`m finally sick of Cubase. I have already problems enough with my pc I don`t need on top a DAW which is doing what it likes whenever it likes. This is not only "hindering" the workflow (like someone said in forum about this bug) it makes any workflow simply impossible.

So: The CPU problems are because of my pc this is the stuttering problem, I actually could solve this by limiting myself to only 4 or 5 instances, but the mute problem is because of a Cubase bug!!! I simply can`t do anything against apart from finally kick out Cubase and installing a new DAW. The Dongle sucks anyway

Actually it happened first time in relation with Eclipsis, second time in relation with PG-8X and now in relation with Sylenth1. I never had problems in using Sylenth1. I made a track with 24 instances and no muting problems. This means: This bug appears completely incidentally. What I wonder is: Has anyone else this bug too??? What`s about other DAW`s are there similar problems?

I know some of those musical sculptures here are already quite intimidating, but I'd just step out of that race and into basking mode!

You can do it!

LOL. See above. Hey I`m a beginner. I will have to install a new DAW now and first finding out how it works at all which will take me the next 2-3 months I suppose. Forget it

But thanks for trying.

Cheers
Yvonne

[actioncat]

Hi all, sad news. I have to give up

awwww that IS sad news, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you can get computer/DAW issues sorted soon so you can join in again.

What`s about other DAW`s are there similar problems?

I'm using FL Studio and my problem has been lots of crashes. Only once was a real setback when I forgot to save for a while and lost a fair amount of work. I get a little message in the info area that says PG-8X has crashed so I know it's not something else, but I don't think other FL users are having this problem so I dunno. Ah well, not really a big deal.

Oh and as it turns out I'm getting more fun sounds out of this thing than I thought I would, so I am gonna make a soundbank after all. I was even gonna try to post it before the end of the month this time, but I guess that doesn't make a difference to you anymore.

[wagtunes]

FWIW, my Cubase got so messed up that I had to reinstall it recently, so I feel your pain.

Hope you get things sorted out real quick.

[Taron]

Use freaking MuLab!
It's so simple and straight forward with the chance to delve deep in its modular guts that it feels like there's little you can't do with it and most of it is pretty much right in front of you. Unlike in Cubase or any of the other DAWs for that matter, where plenty of things are tucked behind all sorts of wicked menus, icons and complex gadgets.
Not to mention the general simplicity around it with no installation procedures, no weird scanning nonsense of vsts and its light weight altogether. Plus I haven't had a bug to stumble over in years!
If you haven't tried it lately, you should download the latest version and have a go!

[Mojo42]

@Actioncat and Wagtunes:
Thanks for sharing your experiances. Feels good not to be alone

Use freaking MuLab!
It's so simple and straight forward with the chance to delve deep in its modular guts that it feels like there's little you can't do with it and most of it is pretty much right in front of you. Unlike in Cubase or any of the other DAWs for that matter, where plenty of things are tucked behind all sorts of wicked menus, icons and complex gadgets.
Not to mention the general simplicity around it with no installation procedures, no weird scanning nonsense of vsts and its light weight altogether. Plus I haven't had a bug to stumble over in years!
If you haven't tried it lately, you should download the latest version and have a go!

I actually do already

I installed Tracktion but it is just for free if you have bought some hardware and such. I installed the trial version and even couldn`t find out how to start this!!! Pfffffffffffffffff.

Next trial was Mulab: Could get it started, could get my midi keyboard connected, played my first notes, recorded a test playing, used insert effects, tried different synths and all this in just 30 minutes. That means: Yeah Mulab rocks

This seems to be the right one for me (DAW idiot)

Okay now I have to find out how to install plugins and then we have to wait and see what happens, lol.

Thanks for your help

[Taron]

Install plugins into Mulab you mean? Like...hooking up vsts?
That's super SUPER easy!
After you started it, it most likely will have the Basic Synth in a rack on the bottom of the screen. Right click on the Basic Synth and choose "replace". Then you can pick: Vst > browse for VST plug-in...
The you would locate your PG8X and that's that.
In the next slot then you can hook your filter > 2BandEQ, for example...and so on.
You can also hook mastering effects into the MASTER rack, of course.
For every new instrument you can just go to the left side bar with the tracks, hit the + and chose VST, where your PG8X should now be listed already. It will automatically add a mixer rack for it, too. And so on and so on... couldn't be easier!

You can also create send effects. Just add a new mixer rack on the bottom, hook some effects to it. You might want to rename that rack like "SEND 1" or "REVERB" or "DELAY" whatever... then in your instrument racks you can go on an open slot, left click and choose "Sends > SEND 1" or what ever you've called it. You can make as many as you wish. Nothing complicated to consider!

[Mojo42]

Install plugins into Mulab you mean? Like...hooking up vsts?
That's super SUPER easy!
After you started it, it most likely will have the Basic Synth in a rack on the bottom of the screen. Right click on the Basic Synth and choose "replace". Then you can pick: Vst > browse for VST plug-in...
The you would locate your PG8X and that's that.
In the next slot then you can hook your filter > 2BandEQ, for example...and so on.
You can also hook mastering effects into the MASTER rack, of course.
For every new instrument you can just go to the left side bar with the tracks, hit the + and chose VST, where your PG8X should now be listed already. It will automatically add a mixer rack for it, too. And so on and so on... couldn't be easier!

You can also create send effects. Just add a new mixer rack on the bottom, hook some effects to it. You might want to rename that rack like "SEND 1" or "REVERB" or "DELAY" whatever... then in your instrument racks you can go on an open slot, left click and choose "Sends > SEND 1" or what ever you've called it. You can make as many as you wish. Nothing complicated to consider!

Thank you so much!!!

Hey, the best news: I wondered if it is might possible to import my midi events from Cubase into Mulab, because if I would have to play this all again, I swear I would rather shoot myself

I exported my instances as midi files with Cubase and simply imported them as midi files in Mulab

Wow that is sooooooooooooooooo coooooool

Okay now we still have got the "stuttering" problem. I check this out tomorrow. Mehum said it can be that a different DAW also means that I could have less problems with too much CPU usage. I`m so excited and would like to try immediately, but I have to stop now with typing and trying to make the impossible possible because my hands and my eyes are hurting, but until now I`m quite satisfied for today with my progress in solving problems

Thanks a lot for the great support

One last question for the moment: What is glitching? When I installed Mulab I got a warning that Mulab was made for double core processors and of course mine is.......something ancient or so and so Mulab warned me that it can come to glitching, whatever this means. Is that a big problem? I would like to know this before I consider to buy the full version Mulab.

[mehum]

Great that you find MuLab works out for you!
You should head over to the MuTools forum here on KVR. The developer is pretty active there and can probably answer any questions on technical issues.

And be sure to look into Mux eventually! It's my favorite VST right now You can do a lot of quirky things with it and I think it's a great learning tool as well.

[Taron]

Check your Audio settings, Mojo!
Most likely you should increase your buffer size. It will make it less responsive, but if you don't play in live, it is no problem, of course.

Asio drivers don't work for my machine, because it caused constant blue screens, driving me crazy. So I switched back to MME drivers on my onboard sound (Realtek), which is crap, but it still works surprisingly well. I had to go to 48000 Hz, though, because anything less would turn to digital rubble. Here are my settings:

Audio Driver Type: MME Audio Output
Audio Driver Name: Speakers (Realtek High Definition)
Samplerate: 48000 Hz
MME Number of Blocks: 8
MME Block Size: 256
Num Audio Processor Threads: Auto(12) - it's a 24 core machine
CPU Load Limit %: Off

Your audio stuttering is most likely due to a too low Block Size. Double it at first, see if it works better. If it feels like it's coming too late to pleasantly work with, go in half steps backward...
Like this: Go to 512, see how it feels, if it's still stuttering go to 1024. If it's ok then, but feels too delayed, go to 768. I'm sure you know what I mean.

I hope that helps!

[Mojo42]

@Mehum: Thanks I will check this out

@Taron:
Tatanka told me that the free version of Mulab is limited to 4 instances and so I can`t make a performance test before I buy it.

I have got an Asio4all driver and I already increased the sample rate until the absolutely limit and this also doesn`t help in my case. At least not at my pc and not on the laptop in combination with Cubase. It helps for making 5 instances instead of only 4 instances or so *lol*. Means: Yes it makes a bit difference, but not that much. Freezing helped most, but as said: I can´t freeze all instances while I still have to work with them.

Tatanka also told me that it is not possible to freeze instances in Mulab and this could be actually a huge disadvantage in my case.

But, neverthless I decided to give Mulab a try and decided to buy it just for having quickly a new DAW which is easy to use and which is working at least
For my other projects (which has nothing to do with OSC) I can use Synths with low CPU usage and then I don`t need a freeze function.

Tracktion seems to be actually for free (Tatanka also told me this) but one has to download Tracktion version 4. Probably I`ve downloaded the wrong version. But as said: This looks like a lot of work for being able to handle it. For a really quick start Mulab looks perfect.

Reaper would also be an alternative for later. I would need much time for learning how to use it.

I probably will buy Mulab today (after a couple of researches I wish to do in this case) and then I would try to finish my OSC track with Mulab, but of course I can´t promise anything. If the CPU usage is still to high and I even cannot freeze the instances then it is really game over for me for this OSC, but I would have got at least a working DAW for my other projects.

Cheers
Yvonne