KVR Audio

synaesthesia · Post by **synaesthesia** » Thu May 21, 2015 9:28 am

It's probably a terrible idea for me to wade into this argument, but I plan to do so benignly, so here we go...

The price of any product or service is fraught with difficulties. I imagine most who provide them, like myself, agonise over what's the correct price point every time we release something new or diferent.

It's a compromise really. Trying to find the "goldilocks zone" between what you think customers will see it as being worth and what you, as a creative, believe you deserve to be rewarded for your efforts. A compromise that is made all the murkier by receiving comments and messages that will sometimes say "Your stuff is too expensive!" and conversely "I can't believe how cheap your stuff is!" Personally, I get more of the latter, but that doesn't necessarily make my judgement any cloudier.

Also, it isn't just a commercial decision. Alongside the fact that I aim to make enough money to pay for things like rent, food, utility bills and Onitsuka Tiger trainers, as a composer myself, I get a kick out of knowing that people use my stuff. Perhaps I could raise my prices and my core audience would be unaffected because they can afford it? But, I happen to enjoy the notion that all sorts of different people out there are using my sounds. I enjoy the emails I get from all walks of life (even the rude ones, sometimes).

I think the points made about people voting with their wallets is absolutely true. If you get your prices wrong, it's not difficult to know. But this can work equally whether your prices are expensive or cheap. It's just as easy to not make money with cheap products as it is with expensive ones. And ultimately you have to learn your market: it's dependant on who your audience is, what synths you work with, what time of year you're releasing stuff, your attitude to your customers, everything.

There's often an argument touted about that if only people would drop their prices they'd make more sales. If that were true, everything would be cheap. I know guys who sell stuff cheap (in a number of industries) who make little income from it, so for me that argument doesn't really hold much water. As I mentioned before, it's about finding that "goldilocks zone" that is appropriate to what you do and to your customers. They DO vote with their wallets!

And finally, that other age-old trope... roll your own sounds. I'm obviously a complete fraud in answering such a topic! On the one hand, I only use my own sounds. And on the other, my livelihood depends on other people not making their own sounds. But, do we ask novelists to create their own words every time they write a new book? No. Often people have expertise elsewhere: in orchestration, drumming, singing, etc. Should we DEMAND that they also learn complex synthesis? Of course not. A large number of people who buy my soundsets have to write several hours of music a month to make a living. So, they don't have time to create all their own sounds from scratch. Wasting time doing that would make them a mug. Because they'd be out of the industry and there'd be no food on their table, for them or their children.

Spip · Post by **Spip** » Thu May 21, 2015 1:04 pm

@ synaesthesia: Nice post!

basslinemaster · Post by **basslinemaster** » Thu May 21, 2015 1:13 pm

bmrzycki wrote:It's simple: vote with your wallet.

The ones priced too high won't be purchased enough and the author will stop making sets or lower the price. I loved the Camel Audio sounds but the price was too steep for me, especially with the exchange rate from GBP to USD. I'd patiently wait for their sales and pick them up at what I thought they were worth.

Another way of thinking about it: suppose there's a sound that you love in a commercial bank. How much of your time would it take to recreate it? Or hire someone to do so? I can only imagine how much Howard Scarr charged Hans Zimmer to make all the Dark Knight, Inception, and Da Vinci sounds. Yet we can purchase a large chunk of those sounds for $99 (around $4 a sound not including the custom ZebraHZ and free upgrade to Zebra3).

Complaining on a forum won't get anyone anywhere. Rewarding those that price right and penalizing those that price high is a much more effective means of getting your message across.

I don't agree - complaining on a forum means that soundbank makers may read our complaints. I bought the AIEP in May, I must have got 4,000 or more presets with the various synths - maybe 5,000. What I'm trying to say is that if a soundbank costs over a certain amount, there is no way I can justify buying it, when I can just save up a little and buy another VST. I do agree that we should vote with our wallets - who isn't?

I realize that an author may sell enough of a soundbank at a higher price to make it worthwhile, I'm just stating what I can and can't afford to pay, and thus I won't buy those soundbanks. The prices seem to have gone up a lot over the past ten years.

Ben H · Post by **Ben H** » Thu May 21, 2015 1:22 pm

I'd rather take 40 well-designed, usable, useful presets over 1000 or 1500 or so that might come bundled with a synth, that are all unusable or sound like crap.

Sound-designing is a niche, and one thing I personally am not good at. So to have a handful of presets that inspire me to write songs and pieces, rather than having to flip through a lot of dross to find something useful is definitely worth the money to me.

Markku · Post by **Markku** » Thu May 21, 2015 1:58 pm

There is a lot of sense in buying presets even if you want to make them on your own. I like to see how they're constructed; often it's easier than creating from scratch. Then I can mutate them towards what I want.

Sometimes someone creates presets which are just what you need; then, it's time saver to have a good preset.

I have bought a synth for just one (preset) sound. If this sounds insane, ask yourself, how many sounds your guitar/piano/whatever has?

(I see there are many really good preset makers already commenting in this thread; I hope they get at least a decent pay for their efforts...)

Wildfunk · Post by **Wildfunk** » Thu May 21, 2015 2:06 pm

People always think if we (the sound designers) just lower our prices then MORE people will buy our sets.

Their logic:

Regular price $20 = (maybe) 100 purchases = $2000
Lower price $10 = (at least) must double the sales = $2000 (so no loss for the creator)
Higher price $30 = must halve the regular sales = $1500 (loss for the creator)

After years of experience i can tell you: NOTHING of this is true!

gnosis123 · Post by **gnosis123** » Thu May 21, 2015 2:51 pm

Markku wrote:There is a lot of sense in buying presets even if you want to make them on your own. I like to see how they're constructed; often it's easier than creating from scratch. Then I can mutate them towards what I want.

Sometimes someone creates presets which are just what you need; then, it's time saver to have a good preset.

Exactly. Presets as a jumping-off point is one reason why Kore is still cool - 8 variations + morphing gives you a lot to explore with just one sound. Same with the Nord A1's 'like' button, though it lacks morphing. Why plugin makers (other than Alchemy, RIP) have not adopted some variation of this incredibly useful feature is beyond me.

Markku wrote:I have bought a synth for just one (preset) sound. If this sounds insane, ask yourself, how many sounds your guitar/piano/whatever has?

Yes - a really good preset is a whole instrument. And think how much music has been composed for just the piano...

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu May 21, 2015 5:19 pm

synaesthesia wrote:
And finally, that other age-old trope... roll your own sounds. I'm obviously a complete fraud in answering such a topic! On the one hand, I only use my own sounds. And on the other, my livelihood depends on other people not making their own sounds. But, do we ask novelists to create their own words every time they write a new book?

The point was, if the OP doesnt like paying the high prices for soundbanks, he should make his own sounds. It doesnt take long to learn basic synthesis, and once you get to grips with you fav synth, its easy enough to start making your own sounds...in time you will be able to create a sound from scratch in no time and then go on to make better and better sounds...depends on how serious you are abut your music and how much effort you are prepared to put in.

I have no probs with ppl buying soundbanks, but if ppl moan about prices, maybe they should make their own...

Spip · Post by **Spip** » Thu May 21, 2015 5:49 pm

How much time do you spend to finish a preset ? Let's say one hour, even though it can be a lot more, at least for me.

128 presets = 128 hours

Let's say 40€ for the soundset (it seems to be "expensive" for a lot of people). The preset, or the hour of work, costs 0.30€. The time you spend on making yourself your presets costs you much more...

Once in a while, I buy presets. For two reasons. I need some sort of fresh air from someone else. Or, I want to hear what a synth, that I just bought, can do. I usually find the factory presets a little bit average.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Thu May 21, 2015 5:50 pm

Spip wrote:How much time do you spend to finish a preset ? Let's say one hour, even though it can be a lot more, at least for me.

Generally I spend several months on a soundset. Seriously.

Spip · Post by **Spip** » Thu May 21, 2015 5:55 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
Spip wrote:How much time do you spend to finish a preset ? Let's say one hour, even though it can be a lot more, at least for me.
Generally I spend several months on a soundset. Seriously.

I'm not surprised...

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Thu May 21, 2015 6:25 pm

synaesthesia wrote: A large number of people who buy my soundsets have to write several hours of music a month to make a living. So, they don't have time to create all their own sounds from scratch. Wasting time doing that would make them a mug. Because they'd be out of the industry and there'd be no food on their table, for them or their children.

Exactly

It seems that there are a lot of forum posters who don't understand there are people actually making a living from creating and performing music that don't have time to program every sound they use, let alone care about it.

Kriminal wrote:Who gives a f**k about the artwork? Are you buying sounds or images...

Mugs

It's called packaging son.

There are quite a few products out these days that attempt to sell themselves in many varied and interesting ways.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu May 21, 2015 6:45 pm

Well, son, it doesnt come in a 'package', so what it looks like make no difference. Audio clips, now they make a BIG difference....

If you buy presets cos the imaginary box looks pretty, you're def a mug

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Thu May 21, 2015 6:47 pm

Who said anything about buying soundbanks because they liked the images? We just like the images.

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Thu May 21, 2015 6:51 pm

tehlord wrote:
It seems that there are a lot of forum posters who don't understand there are people actually making a living from creating and performing music that don't have time to program every sound they use, let alone care about it.

The ppl making a living from music are not the ones moaning about the prices. My comments are aimed at the OP, not eveyone who buys soundbanks. (As i clarified several post up)

Cost of soundbanks - often expensive