Ableton Live 4.0 Beta available to all! (at last)

[headquest]

Does Live4 have a "Freeze" type function? (Can't see one yet)
If not, does anyone know (christianmusicmaker?) whether there will be one in Live5?

At present I use Tracktion/Reason, but Live looks like an interesting proposition... but I can;t really go for it without Freeze and PDC, which are fairly essential on my laptop!

[christianmusicmaker]

Does Live4 have a "Freeze" type function? (Can't see one yet)
If not, does anyone know (christianmusicmaker?) whether there will be one in Live5?

At present I use Tracktion/Reason, but Live looks like an interesting proposition... but I can;t really go for it without Freeze and PDC, which are fairly essential on my laptop!

Live 4 PDC no, but freeze I am not sure. I don't remember ever seeing a freeze function in my experiences with Live 3.

Maybe others can chime in here but I do not remember seeing a freeze function in the Live 4 beta either.

I would imagine PDC *will* finally be included in Live 5 I have been told as much but freeze not so sure.

[meister eder]

I don't get it to be honest. Its like a spreadsheet - how do you make music with slots?

I quite like the look of all the granular sound mangling effects etc but it seems too limiting to work in this grid fashion - I'm used to just playing without sticking to a set time or beat and just recording it, then adding layers as I go on - can you do that or is it just for people that use pre-recorded samples?

You might want to switch to the Arrange view then!
And yes, I never use pre-recorded samples and Live is of much use to me. You could for example work like you are used to (like you described above), and then switch to Session view to jam along and punch in/out record, add a solo or whatever you like.

[meister eder]

Does Live4 have a "Freeze" type function? (Can't see one yet)

There is no Freeze function, but you can very easily re-sample or re-record whatever you like. Then mute the original track, but keep it beside the re-recorded one and always edit them in parallel (which is easy). A workaround and no real freeze, but good enough for now.

[aldi]

as long as i remember, there is a plugin that can do freeze a track. think i've seen it somewhere (not in live, it's a plugin from an other company)

[r_module]

it seems too limiting to work in this grid fashion - I'm used to just playing without sticking to a set time or beat and just recording it

you can set the live-grid (quantization) to "none" and
fire your clips as you need them - liberated from any
grid pattern. Same with stopping of clips.

[r_module]

about freezing:

It's just a question of recording/capturing/rendering
of scenes/song-parts. Afaik the freeze of cubase
"pre-renders" your track without the ability to change
params after that.

Same with live: catch/record a scene and render it.
You'll get a "frozen" track. As Live needs cpu just
for actual tasks, you can open the "frozen" results
in a new track and go ahead (while disabling the "heavy
parts" or moving them, if working in arrange view, to a
"dead corner" of your song in order to re-activate them
later on).

[stale bread]

no freeze in Live, but it really doesn't need it.
load up a vsti in track one and record track ones output to track 2 as audio....even at the same time that you first record track 1 if you like, that way when you're done recording your midi track your audio track is already recorded and you are already moving on to whatever is next....there is no program
as fast as live for workflow.

and Amused, you need to go over the demo, it doesn't matter whether you're in the session clip mode (the one that looks like a spreadsheet) or the arranger mode (the one that looks like a daw) you are not confined to any amount of time or grid when you record. the way you described what you want to do is the way most people use live, you should be very happy with it.

[meister eder]

about freezing:

It's just a question of recording/capturing/rendering
of scenes/song-parts. Afaik the freeze of cubase
"pre-renders" your track without the ability to change
params after that.

Same with live: catch/record a scene and render it.
You'll get a "frozen" track. As Live needs cpu just
for actual tasks, you can open the "frozen" results
in a new track and go ahead (while disabling the "heavy
parts" or moving them, if working in arrange view, to a
"dead corner" of your song in order to re-activate them
later on).

While I recommended this "workaround" myself one or two posts above, I still have to disagree that it is about the same.
This may be true in a technical sense (the track ist rendered and played instead of the original), but if have you ever actually used the freeze function in e.g. Logic, then you know it is not the same.
The handling, not the technical background is what makes the freeze function so convenient!

[r_module]

While I recommended this "workaround" myself one or two posts above,

oops, didn't see it...

have you ever actually used the freeze function in e.g. Logic, then you know it is not the same.

Hmmm, I neither use logic nor cubase therefore I really
don't know.

[headquest]

Thanks for all the tips!
Some seem a little convoluted for a novice like me, but bouncing down the MIDI track to audio seems fair enough.

In Tracktion (which I use as my main host at present) you simply click a button called "Freeze" and after a moment's thought the track is rendered (temp - can be unfrozen later). It's so easy, and I kind of hoped Live might do something comparable (I know that in Cubase it's more complex, too). Also Tracktion freezes effects on audio tracks as well as synths...but there you go. Maybe in Live5...

[munchkin]

You can buy FXFreeze and use it in Live4 if you need a freeze function.

aMUSEd, have you gone through the tutorial? Live 4 seems quite versatile once you get used to it. I like the way that in pattern mode I can record every adjustment to the loops and FX parameters in real time. Re-takes are so easy. And if you want to adjust individual tracks then that's possible too. All my FX and synths seem to work well in it without PDC apart from the Powercore Virus. But then I thought I might try using eXT to host the Virus in Live 4. I'm sure there must be a workaround.

I don't understand the concern about PDC when playing live. I would hope for full PDC otherwise certain plugins will be out of sync. Sonar compensates not only for VST/DX plugins but for external synths that it sends midi info to - everything stays in sync. Live players just have to start playing when Sonar begins! So I would hope for the same in Live 4 at some point.

[meister eder]

While I recommended this "workaround" myself one or two posts above,

oops, didn't see it...

Guess "Although I recommended..." would have been the better English... I don't see this as a competition.

[natqueencole]

Anyone know if they are going to offer crossgrade deals? If not, a group buy would rock!!!

-- N

[Alan]

There is definitely no PDC in Live 4...

I am surprised that Ableton did not include it this time around.

That's because having a glitch free gapless audio engine is more of a priority for Live.Nobody's been able to have both(PDC)simultaneously without some glitching.Sonar 3 comes the closest for gapless and full PDC(including Aux).I'm not sure we'll ever see both in an all around app,but you never know.I agree with TToz, I think Live should stick to what is does best and not try and be an all around app because they have way too far to go until they dig themselves out of the half-assed category.So instead of seeing the re-wire version improve,users will have to suffer with their growing pains.Maybe PDC doesn't appear important to some,but it sure as hell is to others who notice slight delays in various plugs,and even large delays and dropouts in plugs on the UAD/TC cards.Maybe they should maintain 2 versions because at the moment I don't see how their going to pull people away from their main apps with midi/PDC shortcomings,and whatever other growing pains.