One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[RichardSemper]

Charlatan 2.0 is out and ready for an OSC...

Thanks for the pointer. just checked it out - sounds great, and very easy to understand interface

[ImNotDedYet]

Oh fluffy, you're not sounding so fluffy any longer. And I love your avatar!

Truth is, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I respect the fact that others can have opinions that differ than my own.

However, stating that OSC has no musicians and you prefer real instruments is a bit of a copout in my opinion. (which you're more than welcome to disagree with) Anyone can, and I'm guessing many actually do play at least some of the notes via controller, and I'm not sure how a synth - be it hardware or software is any less of an instrument than say an electric guitar going through a certain amp and a pedal board - all things which affect its tone. Hell, even the way an accoustic piano is mic'd and what mics are chosen affect the tone we hear - a major component of the music. I think it's a shame that some people can't listen to a piece of music that's generated entirely from one instrument and not appreciate the thought and skill that went into it - it's no easy feat to design enough interesting sounds that gel together but differ enough to provide interest, all in one synth. I also don't share your opinion that songs need vocals - in fact, I view vocals as an easy way out, a way to produce uninspired music where the words of the vocals can then be used to set the mood of the song. I have a much greater respect for those who can convey mood and feeling in a song that doesn't have someone singing to me how I should feel.

And finally, I disagree that you dislike OSC as it is - you dislike the fact there isn't another type of contest/challenge in which you can make the type of music you'd like to make and has a more diverse amount of music. (and you're correct in that the diversity of the music in the OSC's is lacking, but it's hard to get diversity in something where everything must be "electronic" and come from the same synth at that) OSC does very well what it's intended to do - get people to write music with only one synthesizer.

But, best wishes in your endeavors and selling all your software. I can certainly see the pull of going more outside the box for your musical creation as I do more and more outside the box myself.

[fluffy_little_something]

First of all, thanks for your constructive post, that is not all that common here.

Yes, I don't feel at home on this board at all, unfortunately there is no similar board for R&B, Brazilian, Jazz etc., I have googled quite a bit, but found nothing suitable, yet.

By real instruments I mean for instance electric bass (very important to me as a bass player), but also Rhodes, rhythm guitar etc., all of which are missing on OSC entries for obvious reasons. So it all sounds too artificial to me. Mere synth music, which I never liked, same with Jarre etc. decades ago. I am old-fashioned, I think synths should not account for more than, say, 20% of the instruments on a song (and I mean song, not track because vocals are also key).

I wonder why the OSC is in Instruments, anyway, because with all the effects, manipulating and processing nobody can tell which synth was used. If it is a contest to show off production and technical skills, why not move the whole thing to that forum?

I am not saying there are no musicians on this board, of course there are. But the vast majority of OSC participants who can actually play an instrument are likely keyboard players, not bass players, drummers or whatever.

Unlike what people here seem to think, I am not the only one who thinks that way. I was talking to a French guy on KVR about this some time ago and he seemed to have the same view.

I also don't understand why people think it is an insult when I say most entries are mediocre in my view. Most people are mediocre, most anything in life is mediocre. Chart music is mediocre, so why do people who have not even made it in the world of music think they are better than mediocre? Or is it just my pointing this out that makes people angry? Sorry, but I just don't think 95% of OSC participants will ever get anywhere in the world of music. Neither will I, and I don't feel insulted at all when people tell me that, because I know it myself.

Anyway, I know I am on the wrong board, mingling with the wrong kind of people, so it is my problem, not that of all those people here who seem to be happy about the way things are. So, let's leave it at that. I will delete my subscription to this thread so that nobody feels offended by me anymore

[wagtunes]

First of all, thanks for your constructive post, that is not all that common here.

Yes, I don't feel at home on this board at all, unfortunately there is no similar board for R&B, Brazilian, Jazz etc., I have googled quite a bit, but found nothing suitable, yet.

By real instruments I mean for instance electric bass (very important to me as a bass player), but also Rhodes, rhythm guitar etc., all of which are missing on OSC entries for obvious reasons. So it all sounds too artificial to me. Mere synth music, which I never liked, same with Jarre etc. decades ago. I am old-fashioned, I think synths should not account for more than, say, 20% of the instruments on a song (and I mean song, not track because vocals are also key).

I wonder why the OSC is in Instruments, anyway, because with all the effects, manipulating and processing nobody can tell which synth was used. If it is a contest to show off production and technical skills, why not move the whole thing to that forum?

I am not saying there are no musicians on this board, of course there are. But the vast majority of OSC participants who can actually play an instrument are likely keyboard players, not bass players, drummers or whatever.

Unlike what people here seem to think, I am not the only one who thinks that way. I was talking to a French guy on KVR about this some time ago and he seemed to have the same view.

I also don't understand why people think it is an insult when I say most entries are mediocre in my view. Most people are mediocre, most anything in life is mediocre. Chart music is mediocre, so why do people who have not even made it in the world of music think they are better than mediocre? Or is it just my pointing this out that makes people angry? Sorry, but I just don't think 95% of OSC participants will ever get anywhere in the world of music. Neither will I, and I don't feel insulted at all when people tell me that, because I know it myself.

Anyway, I know I am on the wrong board, mingling with the wrong kind of people, so it is my problem, not that of all those people here who seem to be happy about the way things are. So, let's leave it at that. I will delete my subscription to this thread so that nobody feels offended by me anymore

So all classical music (concertos, symphonies, etc.) isn't music because there are no vocals?

I have never heard such ridiculous nonsense in my entire life when describing what is and what isn't music.

A synth is just another instrument just like a guitar or a piano or tuba or anything else. The prejudice in your opinion is staggering for somebody who calls himself a musician, good, bad or otherwise.

[idfpower]

First of all, thanks for your constructive post, that is not all that common here.

Yes, I don't feel at home on this board at all, unfortunately there is no similar board for R&B, Brazilian, Jazz etc., I have googled quite a bit, but found nothing suitable, yet.

By real instruments I mean for instance electric bass (very important to me as a bass player), but also Rhodes, rhythm guitar etc., all of which are missing on OSC entries for obvious reasons. So it all sounds too artificial to me. Mere synth music, which I never liked, same with Jarre etc. decades ago. I am old-fashioned, I think synths should not account for more than, say, 20% of the instruments on a song (and I mean song, not track because vocals are also key).

I wonder why the OSC is in Instruments, anyway, because with all the effects, manipulating and processing nobody can tell which synth was used. If it is a contest to show off production and technical skills, why not move the whole thing to that forum?

I am not saying there are no musicians on this board, of course there are. But the vast majority of OSC participants who can actually play an instrument are likely keyboard players, not bass players, drummers or whatever.

Unlike what people here seem to think, I am not the only one who thinks that way. I was talking to a French guy on KVR about this some time ago and he seemed to have the same view.

I also don't understand why people think it is an insult when I say most entries are mediocre in my view. Most people are mediocre, most anything in life is mediocre. Chart music is mediocre, so why do people who have not even made it in the world of music think they are better than mediocre? Or is it just my pointing this out that makes people angry? Sorry, but I just don't think 95% of OSC participants will ever get anywhere in the world of music. Neither will I, and I don't feel insulted at all when people tell me that, because I know it myself.

Anyway, I know I am on the wrong board, mingling with the wrong kind of people, so it is my problem, not that of all those people here who seem to be happy about the way things are. So, let's leave it at that. I will delete my subscription to this thread so that nobody feels offended by me anymore

Wrong place, wrong crowd, indeed

I understand what you're saying, BUT (there's always a "but" in there, right) you seem to forget that OSC is a contest with very particular rules which affect overall the submitted songs: you have to work with just 1 synth and finish a full song within 1 month. I'm fairly sure most participants can do better tunes with their usual setups (that prolly include a lot of payware plugins and multiple instruments), and more so when not working under a tight deadline. Keep in mind most participants are doing those OSC tracks in their spare time, often working at impossible hours.

I've been in and out of OSC several times and based on my experience, I'd say the OSC participants are an eclectic bunch, from all corners of the world and from all walks of music. I can hear a good part being actual instrument players. My main instrument is bass as well, and on the other hand I've been "mousing" tunes in FL Studio's Piano Roll for years so I can hear the difference. But why is that critical? All is just means to a goal - which is creating music. How you manage to achieve that is irrelevant (at least to me). And contrary to some ppl may think, "moused" music is not soulless. Just because you're noodling on a guitar or bass doesn't mean your music has heart. And - again, contrary to some may think - using "real instruments" as opposed to software doesn't make your music more real, or true I've seen this type of nonsense postulated on all hardware gear forums and IMO is just wrong. Virtual instruments are just different. Still valid instruments though.

But take guitars, bass, drums, etc. How much of their actual tone gets through the final version of a mastered song? Very little. We also use lots of effects and tons of processing goes into every single song. We often overdub, cut and correct wrong notes, record clean and reamping everything, even quantizing the drums a bit if needed. All to make everything sound tight. In today's music, sound processing is unavoidable, unless you go for that garage/junk sound on purpose. So, at the end of the day, are we that different?


PS: it's not what you're saying per se that gets ppl irritated (IMO), but rather your "tone". There are more elegant ways of saying the same thing without sounding offending.

[wagtunes]

First of all, thanks for your constructive post, that is not all that common here.

Yes, I don't feel at home on this board at all, unfortunately there is no similar board for R&B, Brazilian, Jazz etc., I have googled quite a bit, but found nothing suitable, yet.

By real instruments I mean for instance electric bass (very important to me as a bass player), but also Rhodes, rhythm guitar etc., all of which are missing on OSC entries for obvious reasons. So it all sounds too artificial to me. Mere synth music, which I never liked, same with Jarre etc. decades ago. I am old-fashioned, I think synths should not account for more than, say, 20% of the instruments on a song (and I mean song, not track because vocals are also key).

I wonder why the OSC is in Instruments, anyway, because with all the effects, manipulating and processing nobody can tell which synth was used. If it is a contest to show off production and technical skills, why not move the whole thing to that forum?

I am not saying there are no musicians on this board, of course there are. But the vast majority of OSC participants who can actually play an instrument are likely keyboard players, not bass players, drummers or whatever.

Unlike what people here seem to think, I am not the only one who thinks that way. I was talking to a French guy on KVR about this some time ago and he seemed to have the same view.

I also don't understand why people think it is an insult when I say most entries are mediocre in my view. Most people are mediocre, most anything in life is mediocre. Chart music is mediocre, so why do people who have not even made it in the world of music think they are better than mediocre? Or is it just my pointing this out that makes people angry? Sorry, but I just don't think 95% of OSC participants will ever get anywhere in the world of music. Neither will I, and I don't feel insulted at all when people tell me that, because I know it myself.

Anyway, I know I am on the wrong board, mingling with the wrong kind of people, so it is my problem, not that of all those people here who seem to be happy about the way things are. So, let's leave it at that. I will delete my subscription to this thread so that nobody feels offended by me anymore

Wrong place, wrong crowd, indeed

I understand what you're saying, BUT (there's always a "but" in there, right) you seem to forget that OSC is a contest with very particular rules which affect overall the submitted songs: you have to work with just 1 synth and finish a full song within 1 month. I'm fairly sure most participants can do better tunes with their usual setups (that prolly include a lot of payware plugins and multiple instruments), and more so when not working under a tight deadline. Keep in mind most participants are doing those OSC tracks in their spare time, often working at impossible hours.

I've been in and out of OSC several times and based on my experience, I'd say the OSC participants are an eclectic bunch, from all corners of the world and from all walks of music. I can hear a good part being actual instrument players. My main instrument is bass as well, and on the other hand I've been "mousing" tunes in FL Studio's Piano Roll for years so I can hear the difference. But why is that critical? All is just means to a goal - which is creating music. How you manage to achieve that is irrelevant (at least to me). And contrary to some ppl may think, "moused" music is not soulless. Just because you're noodling on a guitar or bass doesn't mean your music has heart. And - again, contrary to some may think - using "real instruments" as opposed to software doesn't make your music more real, or true I've seen this type of nonsense postulated on all hardware gear forums and IMO is just wrong. Virtual instruments are just different. Still valid instruments though.

But take guitars, bass, drums, etc. How much of their actual tone gets through the final version of a mastered song? Very little. We also use lots of effects and tons of processing goes into every single song. We often overdub, cut and correct wrong notes, record clean and reamping everything, even quantizing the drums a bit if needed. All to make everything sound tight. In today's music, sound processing is unavoidable, unless you go for that garage/junk sound on purpose. So, at the end of the day, are we that different?


PS: it's not what you're saying per se that gets ppl irritated (IMO), but rather your "tone". There are more elegant ways of saying the same thing without sounding offending.

Well said, but why are you wasting time on this person?

[idfpower]

Well said, but why are you wasting time on this person?

Well, tbh... I don't know

[Mivo]

I just wanted to say that I enjoy the monthly OSC tracks and appreciate the creativity, time, work, skill, and effort that goes into them.

I don't really know what the objective criteria for "good music" are, but just like with other forms of art I do know what I like. And I dig quite a few of the tracks, so to me they are good music.

I haven't submitted a track yet, though I sometimes vote, so I can't fully appreciate the difficulty of getting awesome tracks from some of the synths (and would, for this reason, among others, not dish out criticism), but guys, you are doing an awesome job!

[bjporter]

I just wanted to say that I enjoy the monthly OSC tracks and appreciate the creativity, time, work, skill, and effort that goes into them.

I don't really know what the objective criteria for "good music" are, but just like with other forms of art I do know what I like. And I dig quite a few of the tracks, so to me they are good music.

I haven't submitted a track yet, though I sometimes vote, so I can't fully appreciate the difficulty of getting awesome tracks from some of the synths (and would, for this reason, among others, not dish out criticism), but guys, you are doing an awesome job!

Thanks a bunch Mivo, It's awesome to hear this kind of stuff. Hopefully next month's synth will suit your fancy. Likely it will be something very accessible, with lots of patches, to contrast with this months mega challenge.

[rp314]

So, there are some who maybe would prefer to occasionally participate in a contest that also allows for the use of "real" instruments? I wonder where one might find something like that without extensive Googling?

Of course, if leaving the Instruments forum and moving down the page a bit is too much to ask...

[bjporter]

So, there are some who maybe would prefer to occasionally participate in a contest that also allows for the use of "real" instruments? I wonder where one might find something like that without extensive Googling?

Of course, if leaving the Instruments forum and moving down the page is a bit is too much to ask...

Yes, here's a fantastic one, and a perfect time to join: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4&t=439531

[jackmau]

Hi folks, first post here on KVR even if I have been reading you guys for at least a pair of years, I discovered some time ago this competition and this month I will be glad to partecipate but I didn't understand if external midi plugins are allowed, I ask you this because I have a NI kore 2 based setup and I usually load virtual instrument not directly inside my DAW (reaper) but in kore, even if often I do not use Koresounds at all, and obviously I do not mean to use them the competition, but the program itself is really helpful for automations, preset morphing, arpeggios and short sequences, I cannot live without it. Do you think I am allowed to use it, since it doesn't effect audio directly? Thank you guys.

[bjporter]

Hi folks, first post here on KVR even if I have been reading you guys for at least a pair of years, I discovered some time ago this competition and this month I will be glad to partecipate but I didn't understand if external midi plugins are allowed, I ask you this because I have a NI kore 2 based setup and I usually load virtual instrument not directly inside my DAW (reaper) but in kore, even if often I do not use Koresounds at all, and obviously I do not mean to use them the competition, but the program itself is really helpful for automations, preset morphing, arpeggios and short sequences, I cannot live without it. Do you think I am allowed to use it, since it doesn't effect audio directly? Thank you guys.

That sounds fine, as long as it is not composing for you, and you're doing the composing. If you're in doubt, maybe send over a preview and screenshots of what you're doing, and update us.

[psmacmur]

Possibly off-topic, but I noticed today in the recent CM that our own JKF Flashico won Curve 2.5 CM itself in the Curve 2.5 CM Sound Design Challenge Hope to hear Curve in the next OSC Any!

[gorgorgathgorgorgor]

By real instruments I mean for instance electric bass (very important to me as a bass player), but also Rhodes, rhythm guitar etc., all of which are missing on OSC entries for obvious reasons. So it all sounds too artificial to me. Mere synth music, which I never liked, same with Jarre etc. decades ago. I am old-fashioned, I think synths should not account for more than, say, 20% of the instruments on a song (and I mean song, not track because vocals are also key).

I wonder why the OSC is in Instruments, anyway, because with all the effects, manipulating and processing nobody can tell which synth was used. If it is a contest to show off production and technical skills, why not move the whole thing to that forum?

I am not saying there are no musicians on this board, of course there are. But the vast majority of OSC participants who can actually play an instrument are likely keyboard players, not bass players, drummers or whatever.

Had to put in my $.02 here. I happen to be a Bassist myself, and I love playing all sorts of instruments. I started doing OSC on a lark, just to learn to use the Midi stuff in my new download of Reaper. I found it quite enjoyable, and oddly liberating, and ended putting out a record of my entries in the process! I'm just suggesting that instead of complaining, maybe give it a whack yourself and see if you can give us a Brazillian Jazz Fusion thing, see if you can make convincing percussion, and you know, "play" with it.