KVR Audio

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:07 pm

tdm wrote:Hello,

I just purchased Iris 2 and have been getting hung notes when using the Radius RT transposition mode (one of the reasons I purchased the program). This only seems to happen when the volume release time is set to about 90 ms or greater. Longer times and more notes played seems to exacerbate the problem. Does anyone else have this problem?

I've contacted iZotope's customer service about this and was told that they were unaware of the problem, but will look into it. From other posts I've read, it doesn't seem like they are very good about updates. So, it may be time to try and cobble together a "watchdog" note off retransmitter in Bidule.

My computer is a 2012 MacBook Pro with 16 GB of memory and a 2.6 GHz Quad Core i7 processor. I only use this computer for sound generation and do not run a DAW on it. With nothing else running, when I play 10 Radius RT voices, I’m only using about 25% of one of the eight threads available; about 3% of the processors total power. So, this doesn’t look like it's a computer issue. This problem occurs in an AU and VST within Bidule and with Iris 2 running standalone. I have no problems of this sort with any other sound generation software.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Tom

Assumption: It's not hanging notes, but the new envelope structure in Iris 2, if you don't assign an envelope to the amplitude of an oscillator it will of course play forever if the overall volume of the oscillator is other than -infinite. An easy solution is to assign e.g. envelope 5 to the master gain (not the oscillator gain), then the overall envelope will kill all notes, once the release phase has passed.
Also note that if you set the FX section to “Send“ you will get lots of “hanging notes“ because the FX send is routed pre-envelope (which is totally bananas), the (clunky) workaround here is to also assign an envelope to the send level so that the send closes when the note is released, but as the send is monophonic (not per note) the send will re-open when a new note is played and the other notes played before will be sent into the FX again, causing disturbing level bumps.

My 2 c...

tdm · Post by **tdm** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:40 pm

Hello SC,

Thanks for answering my plea for help.

I do have envelope 5 assigned to to the master gain, and I discovered the very problem you mention concerning the Sends (yeah it's bananas). If I use a Send, I make sure to assign an envelope to it to shut the oscillator off.

I should have pointed out that this "hanging note" thing doesn't happen all of the time; if I don't play too many notes at the same time it doesn't happen, so it isn't the patch (or else it would always do it). It looks like a bug where when things get too busy, it loses track of what is supposed to be shut down. The thing is, I would think somebody else would have noticed this by now. Am I the only guy using Radius RT with release times longer than 90 ms?

If I am missing something in your reply, let me know . . . this is a new program to me, and I may be doing something stupid.

Tom

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:44 pm

I have had a lot of trouble with Iris 2, but I've never had a hanging note issue so maybe make a video demonstrating your issue and I might be able to help. I do use Radius RT with long release times, but I've never encountered what you're describing in 3+ years of Iris.

tdm · Post by **tdm** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:19 pm

Here's the kicker.

If I turn the Master and Sample gains down to -inf, with no envelopes assigned to them, I can still get Radius RT notes to hang. I hear no sound, but I can see the white vertical lines move across the sample. When they get to the end, they stop (I have loop turned off), but the voices are still assigned. If you have the loop turned on, they will continue to sweep across the waveform.

It doesn't do this every time, but it's easier to make happen if you sustain the notes with a sustain pedal, play a bunch of notes, and then let the sustain pedal up. With the sustain pedal, I can get this to happen with the release time set to 1 ms. But, it only seems to happen when you try to go above the voice limit set in the Radius RT options. I think their Radius RT voice stealing algorithm is screwy.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:25 pm

tdm wrote:I think their Radius RT voice stealing algorithm is screwy.

Then better create a workaround for yourself because there will be no quick fix for sure. Set Radius RT polyphony to max and don't play so many notes at once

tdm · Post by **tdm** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:28 pm

[quote="Sampleconstruct"]I have had a lot of trouble with Iris 2, but I've never had a hanging note issue so maybe make a video demonstrating your issue and I might be able to help. I do use Radius RT with long release times, but I've never encountered what you're describing in 3+ years of Iris.[/quote]

Damn! I think this problem is unique to my system, buy how? I know about a lot of things, but making a video screen capture of my computer in action isn't one of them.

Thanks for the help, SC. I'm not sure where to go from here.

tdm · Post by **tdm** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:42 pm

[quote="Sampleconstruct"][quote="tdm"]I think their Radius RT voice stealing algorithm is screwy.[/quote]

Then better create a workaround for yourself because there will be no quick fix for sure. Set Radius RT polyphony to max and don't play so many notes at once

[/quote]

Yeah, but why don't you see this problem. If anybody would see it, you would.

After playing with this just now to write up the previous messages, I can see the hanging notes on the on-screen keyboard. If I play that note again, it clears it from the keyboard, but the oscillator is still hanging. So, I don't know if I can fix this through MIDI.

It's always something.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:18 pm

Does this also happen in your DAW, or only in standalone mode?

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:22 pm

In any case, to stop hanging notes, use the red panic button at the the top/center of the GUI.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:28 pm

...and maybe it has to do with some sort of Midi assignment, try clicking on the bing Midi Assign button at the top of the GUI and see if anything has been assigned you're not aware of. I also compared the preferences of Iris 1/2, Iris 1 has a Midi flush function, this has been removed in Iris 2, probably in favor of this new panic button.

tdm · Post by **tdm** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:29 pm

[quote="tdm"][quote="Sampleconstruct"][quote="tdm"]I think their Radius RT voice stealing algorithm is screwy.[/quote]

Then better create a workaround for yourself because there will be no quick fix for sure. Set Radius RT polyphony to max and don't play so many notes at once

[/quote]

Yeah, but why don't you see this problem. If anybody would see it, you would.

After playing with this just now to write up the previous messages, I can see the hanging notes on the on-screen keyboard. If I play that note again, it clears it from the keyboard, but the oscillator is still hanging. So, I don't know if I can fix this through MIDI.

It's always something.[/quote]

Well, I rigged up a quick and dirty All Notes Off MIDI generator in Bidule, and that turns off the hanging notes. So, it appears to be a MIDI issue in my computer, but only with Iris 2. Weird.

If anybody has any thought on this, let me know.

Sampleconstruct · Post by **Sampleconstruct** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:30 pm

Read my other answers, we were cross-posting.

tdm · Post by **tdm** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:36 pm

[quote="Sampleconstruct"]Does this also happen in your DAW, or only in standalone mode?[/quote]

I don't use a DAW. The computer is used as a sound generator controlled by an external MIDI keyboard. I have a MIDI monitor in Bidule, so I know that all the notes are getting note offs.

It happens in Bidule (AU or VST), and it happens when Iris 2 is running standalone (Bidule out of the picture).

tdm · Post by **tdm** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:48 pm

[quote="Sampleconstruct"]...and maybe it has to do with some sort of Midi assignment, try clicking on the bing Midi Assign button at the top of the GUI and see if anything has been assigned you're not aware of. I also compared the preferences of Iris 1/2, Iris 1 has a Midi flush function, this has been removed in Iris 2, probably in favor of this new panic button.[/quote]

I checked: No MIDI assignments.

tdm · Post by **tdm** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:49 pm

The following scheme also fixes it, but it's not a practical solution: In Bidule, If I separate out the MIDI note offs, delayed them by 500 ms, and merge them back in with the original MIDI stream; no more hung notes no matter what I do. So, every MIDI note off is repeated 500 ms later. This obviously is a problem for repeated notes, but it does confirm what the problem is related to. I tried shorter delays, but I could still get it to happen. I guess the fix is to not exceed the 10 voice limit, but that's a pain.

I wonder why this is happening only on Iris 2? Very strange.

SC, thanks for taking the time to try and help me. If you have any other ideas, I'm all ears.

iZotope Iris 2