KVR Audio

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:01 pm

posted in wrong thread...

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:07 pm

EnGee wrote: Anyway, I played little with Retrologue and Sunrizer. They are absolutely great synths producing great pads using stacked or multi oscillators But I couldn't find a way to detune every oscillator from the stack (like in Adam Szabo's research).

Afaik, that wasn't possible in the JP-8000 either. According to the paper, and to what i read about it, you can only control the amount of detune of all oscillators (via the detune knob), and in the case of the JP-8000 also the volume of the center oscillator in relation to the other oscillators. On other synths, you can also control the stereo spread, and the detune laws (Dune 2 and Spire (Spire actually features the JP-8000 detuning behavior according to the manual, if you set the unison density knob to max, half should represent the detune behavior from the Virus)). You could also try Dune CM or BE which already gives you loads of options for setting up unison with the respective section and the mod matrix where you can edit the unison voices seperately, so you'd be able to set the detune for any of the unison voices seperately too.

dakkra · Post by **dakkra** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:41 pm

Mutools MUX. Because who doesn't love 25 voice unisono?

It's so fat, it's like white noise!!!

But seriously I love it. 7 voices and some detune and it sounds awesome!

Dakkra

fluffy_little_something · Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:41 pm

Someone post a little audio of what constitutes an "awesome" supersaw pad, please, just a few chords so we all know what we are actually talking about

dakkra · Post by **dakkra** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:47 pm

JP8k 7 voice aliased unisono? That's usually what it is...

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:50 pm

The one right at the start here is pretty much a pure supersaw pad i think:

https://soundcloud.com/refx/vengeance-s ... cubation-2

fluffy_little_something · Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:02 pm

chk071 wrote:
EnGee wrote:
EnGee wrote:
chk071 wrote:Not that i know much about it, but yes, his papers about the Roland supersaw got indeed published: http://www.nada.kth.se/utbildning/grukt ... _10131.pdf I guess that it has been used as a base for other stuff. At least that would be much easier than doing the research yourself.

Started to read the paper myself today, great read and very informative, even for people who don't like supersaws.
Oh thank you I will read soon.
It is a very interesting research in spite of me not being a fan of supersaw or trance, but I don't dislike it. I hear it sometimes and this research made me curious to test what I have from synths. I doubt I have something can produce it. Retrologue has stacked oscillators but I thought it is like an old Jupiter 8 from the 80's? I have no idea really. Oh I have Sunrizer, I will check that and see.
Tbh i don't know why the supersaw always seems to be identified with trance or EDM. You can hear it in every second pop, chillout or ambient track too. Maybe the people just don't realize it when there's a filter on it, or it's being used as a pad sound. I would even go as far as to say that it's one of the most used sound in any kind of electronic music. It's literally everywhere as far as i'm concerned.

I don't hear it in R&B and such genres. I think supersaw with little detuning is not much different from a rich normal pad. I can use a typical supersaw synth to make classic pads from before supersaw was invented. That is what I use Hive for, modest background pads that were probably done using a DX7 or something like that in the early 80s. Not sure about analog hardware, its sound was less dense than the pads I have in mind.

Pyrotek45 · Post by **Pyrotek45** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:05 pm

dakkra wrote:Mutools MUX. Because who doesn't love 25 voice unisono?

It's so fat, it's like white noise!!!

But seriously I love it. 7 voices and some detune and it sounds awesome!

Dakkra

i have mux but i dont care for its supersaw, i have to REALLY tweak it to get it close to right for me.

fluffy_little_something · Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:09 pm

Without getting too technical, is the pitch difference between supersaw waves distributed evenly? Or at random or using different prime numbers? I read somewhere that using 3, 5, 7, 11 etc. in detuning brings about additional denseness.

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:23 pm

Orbit-50 wrote:Sylenth1 and Superwave Trance Pro. Everything else is just grasping at straws.

.-.

I grasp at straws for fun.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:36 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:Without getting too technical, is the pitch difference between supersaw waves distributed evenly? Or at random or using different prime numbers? I read somewhere that using 3, 5, 7, 11 etc. in detuning brings about additional denseness.

In the Roland Supersaw the detuning does not seem to be equal for all Saws while in the Virus TI Hypersaw it seems to be more or less equal.
Anyway there is more about those than just the right detuning amount which is why emulating the Roland Supersaw and the Virus Hypersaw is not a simple task. The difference is between a "Static" behavior of the detuned waveforms versus the behavior over a longer time which usually is not so static.
I made samples of a Virus TI Hypersaw and used quite long samples (more than 30 seconds) to reflect the behavior properly.

Besides that the JP-8000 Supersaw and teh Virus Hypersaw also sound quite different.

The only plugin that seems to contain a more or less correct emulations of both is Tone2 Electra 2.1 (e.g. the "Hypersaw" Vir 9x and "Supersaw JP" modes).

Proper soundimg Roland Supersaws also seem to be included in Adam Szabo's JP6K (on his work/research most other Roland Supersaw emulations seem to be based...), U-He Diva (this is the only one with all modes of the JP-8000 oscillator, not just the Supersaw), JP-4c (for Reaktor) and also the "Überwave" in Waldorf Nave could sound very close.

Pyrotek45 · Post by **Pyrotek45** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:37 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:Without getting too technical, is the pitch difference between supersaw waves distributed evenly? Or at random or using different prime numbers? I read somewhere that using 3, 5, 7, 11 etc. in detuning brings about additional denseness.

im pretty sure its not random in detuning although the detune knob in the supersaw is not linear, but i do believe that an odd number of voices is better because it has a center voice.

fluffy_little_something · Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:43 pm

Pyrotek45 wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Without getting too technical, is the pitch difference between supersaw waves distributed evenly? Or at random or using different prime numbers? I read somewhere that using 3, 5, 7, 11 etc. in detuning brings about additional denseness.
im pretty sure its not random in detuning although the detune knob in the supersaw is not linear, but i do believe that an odd number of voices is better because it has a center voice.

Funny you mention the center voice. Someone already mentioned the Trance Pro, I never knew which of the 7 waves was the center wave. Since I assume it makes sense not to detune the center wave, one should know which one it is...

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:48 pm

Supersaws... I'm a huge fan of Roland supersaw and seek the ways to emulate it. I was successful with Sylenth1, Dune2 and Serum with a little help of Ableton racks. I also used to program my own synth that does the job (it sucks tho), and recently even reproduced supersaw using train siren sample as a base

After all, there is no favourite supersaw synth of mine, they all can get the job done and it's usually a matter of convenience.

alexmshore · Post by **alexmshore** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:49 pm

adamtrance wrote:
Ingonator wrote:A while ago Alex Shore published teh free "JP-4c" Reaktor synth:
http://alex-shore.com/jp-4c/#.VYWpb_ntlBc

This includes a Supersaw module that seems to sound almost exactly ike the real thing.

A while ago i did use this (wit hteh permission of Alex) to create some of my own Reaktor ensembles:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=387662
While Alex did a good job, its important to mention and give credit where credit is due, that his supersaws are based off my research of the supersaws, which my JP6K used (http://www.adamszabo.com/jp6k/). It was the first every VST to properly emulate the famous Roland supersaw, and after my paper went online, it started the ball rolling, and was used in Corona, Diva, Sunrizer etc... (or at least Id like to think that, so my research made a world a better place you cant have enough supersaws )

Thanks Adam. Indeed, provided people read the project they will be able to see that any material used has been credited with appropriate references from either yourself or a number of other researchers. The purpose of my paper was to try and find out if there is some sort of "magic element" to the original Roland supersaw that oddly enough make people start threads like this! Why do people like the LA-2A compressor so much, or the Moog Filter, Neumann U87, Gibson Les Paul etc. What was it that made those so special.

I very much like the sound of the JP6k, think its very accurate. I remember stumbling across it before even contemplating the idea of a project based on the supersaw myself, I unfortunately just have to wait for SynthMaker to support mac.

As to which is the best, all of them are great from what I have tried, although luckily for myself I now have access to the real thing

favorite supersaw synth?