I tend to think after I posted THREE PURE MANTRA EVO songs on soundcloud, I might've redeemed myself a little bit.
One Synth Challenge #76: Mantra Evo (Syntax Project Wins!)
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- KVRAF
- 3212 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
As in triple clear, right!
I tend to think after I posted THREE PURE MANTRA EVO songs on soundcloud, I might've redeemed myself a little bit.
I tend to think after I posted THREE PURE MANTRA EVO songs on soundcloud, I might've redeemed myself a little bit.
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- KVRist
- 79 posts since 14 Oct, 2007
I was just joking of course, but you probably got that.Taron wrote:As in triple clear, right!
I tend to think after I posted THREE PURE MANTRA EVO songs on soundcloud, I might've redeemed myself a little bit.
You have not just posted three pure Mantra Evo tracks, you have posted 3 good ones too.
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- KVRAF
- 3212 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
thanks!
...yeah, I also properly edited the info to reflect the eventual super fun I had with it, too. I still wouldn't take back any of the suggestions I made, or even the complaints, but it might be good for people to know that I had those struggles, which I'm dead certain everyone will have had with it, too, but it's well worth it to get past them! 
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- KVRist
- 280 posts since 29 Nov, 2014 from Germany
Yeah mostly, but not alwaysTaron wrote:You're really a sweetheart, Yvy!
I`m glad that you are starting to be aware of the strengths of Mantra Evo tooTaron wrote: Today I went again through some of the old OSCs. There were a number of them that looked fantastic and offered such comprehensive controls and all that, but they sounded sterile, dead and cold.
I still would love Evo to gain a little more conventional powers, but for what it's worth, it really does not sound dead or cold; it sounds very much alive and you can get great warmth and fullness with it!
Anyhow, it's a powerful exercise for "letting go!" and that's what I'd advice to anyone, who's about to work with it.
I`m sure you didn`t mean it bad, but please just consider about what effect some blindfold comments can have onto others. Critique is completely okay that`s also what OSC is for, that the synth developer can get feedback. But it should be calm, matter of fact and anyhow.....matured if you know what I mean. And also keep in mind that OSC is for to support the small developer who are offering freeware.
Often they just start to develope synths and need time for learning all this things and that is why they give away their synths for free and so it is not very fair to compare this work with synths which costs 300 Dollars and where everything works perfectly. What they really need is constructive critique for to improve and for being able to learn from their mistakes.
I just hope that I don`t see the day coming when a synth developer got scared for the case that his synth got selected for OSC. No this is not a joke, I`m serious because if I were a synth developer I actually would pray that it never got selected for OSC. That`s something which should be seriously considered
Okay I guess I also have talked enough now
Peace and love
Simplicity without a name, is free from all external aim. With no desire, at rest and still,
all things go right as of their will.
Daodejing verse 37
all things go right as of their will.
Daodejing verse 37
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- KVRAF
- 3212 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
PLEASE, DO NOT QUOTE THIS SECTION! It could totally be ripped out of context!
It's funny, how easy it can get to ignore the feelings of an indi-developer or even hobbiest for that matter. At the same time, though, I wonder who chooses the synths for OSC? Naturally, this time, it's been a pretty good example for the benefit of the community not having been involved (as it seems?). I'm pretty sure many would've fought tooth and nail to avoid it at first sight/touch, hahaha...because no matter how cool that raw diamond is, I couldn't see it either.
At any rate, it appears to me that we are here to make music, have fun with a great challenge and exchange the fruits of our pleasure with each other, even educationally to a large degree, if you asked me. At the end it also is exactly that, "the fruit itself", that provides the most telling feedback. In the meantime, though, although I absolutely love to encourage people, I do not want to patronize anyone, as that could well be equally unfair.
However, I have already apologized for my own outbursts and don't mind doing so again. Considering how sensitive I can be, when it comes to that exact situation, hahaha, I should be and am at least mildly ashamed of myself.
I wonder, what an American style sandwich would read, and I do not mean to be sarcastic, I'm honestly thinking about this right now. Let me try:
Wow, a free synth with like a ton of features. Great job right there already!
Sounds a little awkward at first and the presets are a little scary, but it certainly has a unique character already.
I would totally love this synth, if it had more ordinary envelopes with proper timing, each dial with the exact same timespan from something like 0.01 - 10 sec, or so.
- ...if you could have on more control to multiply the amount of influence an envelope has on its target. Depending on the target it could then get either multiplied by the value that was already set for the target as one might expect it for volume. For Filters the multiplied envelope values could be added to the value that was already set for the filter. I would do the same for all other values, too, actually. You could clip the resulting value by a max value, for example, to prevent extra trouble, or keep it super edgy and don't, hahaha.
- ...if every modulation source, or effect source, had an additional level value, just like for the envelopes.
- ...if LFOs could be polyphonic (ideally by choice between global or polyphonic)
- ...again, it's a modulation source and would ideally offer at least a level control.
What's cool, though, and a pretty significant contributor to the sound of the Mantra Evo is the "accidental" second filter unit inside the LFO section. Normally one would really expect that the LFO would target the existing filter. On the other hand, it's also a pity that you have to turn on the lfo to even get that second filter to work. Wouldn't hurt to simply make it a second independent unit that could be targeted by the LFO.
I'm not asking for complex modulation matrix stuff, though, because that is likely a different beast, so don't worry.
Because you have great sync options, it might be useful to offer offsets to the starting point of the LFO, though!
The peculiar EQ section is an interesting bonus, but it would help a great deal to see the frequencies by number in order to have at least a remote idea what one is doing there. Considering that you have the outstandingly useful distortion unit in the effect section, having that EQ kick in before the distortion would be more useful for the sound design that you otherwise would have no access to, you know. Currently it appears to affect the signal only at the end, which is something you could do in your DAW...but then... so is distortion, so...but anyway, I hope you know what I mean. It's most certainly a clever way to get signature into the sound with the built-in distortion.
The sequencer and gate stuff is neat. I even used it with great pleasure to get some really nice old-school sounds, but also other eery effects. I probably wouldn't touch that...heck, it's great!
To me, the reverb is really redundant, but a proper delay is always welcome, if you can control the levels of it. A balance dial would probably be ideal (dry/wet), but simply a volume level for the delays could do the trick already. Seems like you've got really nice sync going and I don't mind your value display (based on beats). I think, that's properly modern! Great! Unusual, but great!
So, all in all, you've created a little monster with massive potential of which a lot of it can already be coax out into the open and I ended up having fantastic fun with it! My wishes up there are sincere and it would thrill me deeply to one day find Mantra Evolved on the forum. Then I will make massive noise to get it into yet another OSC!!! 
It's funny, how easy it can get to ignore the feelings of an indi-developer or even hobbiest for that matter. At the same time, though, I wonder who chooses the synths for OSC? Naturally, this time, it's been a pretty good example for the benefit of the community not having been involved (as it seems?). I'm pretty sure many would've fought tooth and nail to avoid it at first sight/touch, hahaha...because no matter how cool that raw diamond is, I couldn't see it either.
At any rate, it appears to me that we are here to make music, have fun with a great challenge and exchange the fruits of our pleasure with each other, even educationally to a large degree, if you asked me. At the end it also is exactly that, "the fruit itself", that provides the most telling feedback. In the meantime, though, although I absolutely love to encourage people, I do not want to patronize anyone, as that could well be equally unfair.
However, I have already apologized for my own outbursts and don't mind doing so again. Considering how sensitive I can be, when it comes to that exact situation, hahaha, I should be and am at least mildly ashamed of myself.
I wonder, what an American style sandwich would read, and I do not mean to be sarcastic, I'm honestly thinking about this right now. Let me try:
Wow, a free synth with like a ton of features. Great job right there already!
Sounds a little awkward at first and the presets are a little scary, but it certainly has a unique character already.
I would totally love this synth, if it had more ordinary envelopes with proper timing, each dial with the exact same timespan from something like 0.01 - 10 sec, or so.
- ...if you could have on more control to multiply the amount of influence an envelope has on its target. Depending on the target it could then get either multiplied by the value that was already set for the target as one might expect it for volume. For Filters the multiplied envelope values could be added to the value that was already set for the filter. I would do the same for all other values, too, actually. You could clip the resulting value by a max value, for example, to prevent extra trouble, or keep it super edgy and don't, hahaha.
- ...if every modulation source, or effect source, had an additional level value, just like for the envelopes.
- ...if LFOs could be polyphonic (ideally by choice between global or polyphonic)
- ...again, it's a modulation source and would ideally offer at least a level control.
What's cool, though, and a pretty significant contributor to the sound of the Mantra Evo is the "accidental" second filter unit inside the LFO section. Normally one would really expect that the LFO would target the existing filter. On the other hand, it's also a pity that you have to turn on the lfo to even get that second filter to work. Wouldn't hurt to simply make it a second independent unit that could be targeted by the LFO.
I'm not asking for complex modulation matrix stuff, though, because that is likely a different beast, so don't worry.
Because you have great sync options, it might be useful to offer offsets to the starting point of the LFO, though!
The peculiar EQ section is an interesting bonus, but it would help a great deal to see the frequencies by number in order to have at least a remote idea what one is doing there. Considering that you have the outstandingly useful distortion unit in the effect section, having that EQ kick in before the distortion would be more useful for the sound design that you otherwise would have no access to, you know. Currently it appears to affect the signal only at the end, which is something you could do in your DAW...but then... so is distortion, so...but anyway, I hope you know what I mean. It's most certainly a clever way to get signature into the sound with the built-in distortion.
The sequencer and gate stuff is neat. I even used it with great pleasure to get some really nice old-school sounds, but also other eery effects. I probably wouldn't touch that...heck, it's great!
To me, the reverb is really redundant, but a proper delay is always welcome, if you can control the levels of it. A balance dial would probably be ideal (dry/wet), but simply a volume level for the delays could do the trick already. Seems like you've got really nice sync going and I don't mind your value display (based on beats). I think, that's properly modern! Great! Unusual, but great!
So, all in all, you've created a little monster with massive potential of which a lot of it can already be coax out into the open and I ended up having fantastic fun with it! My wishes up there are sincere and it would thrill me deeply to one day find Mantra Evolved on the forum. Then I will make massive noise to get it into yet another OSC!!!
Last edited by Taron on Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 51 posts since 16 May, 2014
Lots of challenges, lots of frustrations, lots of fun.
DAW: LMMS & Audacity
32 instances Mantra Evo
native effects: HP, LP, Reverb, and Pan; plus a little Reverse and Bass Enhance
Also used Betabugs SimpleSqueeze Compressor, Camel Crusher, Bionic Delay and Tal Reverb
For EQ, in addition to native tools, I also made use of DensitymkII by Variety of Sounds.
https://soundcloud.com/a-sizemore/sizem ... the-dragon
DAW: LMMS & Audacity
32 instances Mantra Evo
native effects: HP, LP, Reverb, and Pan; plus a little Reverse and Bass Enhance
Also used Betabugs SimpleSqueeze Compressor, Camel Crusher, Bionic Delay and Tal Reverb
For EQ, in addition to native tools, I also made use of DensitymkII by Variety of Sounds.
https://soundcloud.com/a-sizemore/sizem ... the-dragon
Last edited by sizemore0409 on Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 23160 posts since 8 Oct, 2014
@Taron
See, I'm not nearly that wishful. I'd be happy with just 2 little things.
1) More stable
2) Bigger GUI with easy to turn controls.
Give me just that and I could make some cool music with this thing.
I'm really not that hard to please when it comes to free synths.
See, I'm not nearly that wishful. I'd be happy with just 2 little things.
1) More stable
2) Bigger GUI with easy to turn controls.
Give me just that and I could make some cool music with this thing.
I'm really not that hard to please when it comes to free synths.
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- KVRist
- 280 posts since 29 Nov, 2014 from Germany
Simplicity without a name, is free from all external aim. With no desire, at rest and still,
all things go right as of their will.
Daodejing verse 37
all things go right as of their will.
Daodejing verse 37
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- KVRAF
- 3212 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
May I start this by lovingly saying "dude", I love making music with musagi and did a decade worth of Reason "Subtractor only" songs, hahaha...as in... it's not about "pleasing me"- because that is apparently not that hard-, but about giving advice from the best of my knowledge and understanding with respect to what I could imagine alienoiz could pull off, you know.
And, yes, I totally forgot the UI, hehe, but I can live with a freaking command prompt as long as it has enough to produce sounds, you know. I'd go as far as saying: I'm not that hard to please! 
When I first started writing Verve's interface, I had a rotational based dial system, because I figured it would actually provide much more control, because you can fine tune by just moving away from the center of the dial to get to finer degrees. But it really proved to be impractical quickly, so I went for traditional up/down-left/right dials.
His pulldowns are a little more bewildering, because you have to guess what value you're hitting and that ain't right.
While one may debate the dials, there's no debating the pulldowns, that's for sure.
And, yes, I totally forgot the UI, hehe, but I can live with a freaking command prompt as long as it has enough to produce sounds, you know. I'd go as far as saying: I'm not that hard to please!
When I first started writing Verve's interface, I had a rotational based dial system, because I figured it would actually provide much more control, because you can fine tune by just moving away from the center of the dial to get to finer degrees. But it really proved to be impractical quickly, so I went for traditional up/down-left/right dials.
His pulldowns are a little more bewildering, because you have to guess what value you're hitting and that ain't right.
While one may debate the dials, there's no debating the pulldowns, that's for sure.
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- KVRist
- 182 posts since 23 Nov, 2007 from New York
Here is my entry:
https://soundcloud.com/slava-fiks/techno-mantranized
There are 26 instances of the synth in Reaper. DR 9.
No external Plugins, just ReaEq, ReaVerb, ReaDelay,
and JS: Utility/limiter.
https://soundcloud.com/slava-fiks/techno-mantranized
There are 26 instances of the synth in Reaper. DR 9.
No external Plugins, just ReaEq, ReaVerb, ReaDelay,
and JS: Utility/limiter.
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- KVRAF
- 3212 posts since 17 Apr, 2010 from Slovenia
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 16 Apr, 2015
HeartBeatHero - The dragon and the butterfly
https://soundcloud.com/heartbeathero/he ... -butterfly
Entry for: OSC 76: Mantra Evo
DAW: Renoise
11 Mantra Evo instances
11 x eq
2 x reverb
https://soundcloud.com/heartbeathero/he ... -butterfly
Entry for: OSC 76: Mantra Evo
DAW: Renoise
11 Mantra Evo instances
11 x eq
2 x reverb
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2726 posts since 19 Dec, 2010 from North America
Amazing we're getting so many entries. This synth gets finer with age it seems.
One Synth Challenge: https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/about
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- KVRAF
- 2399 posts since 7 Mar, 2014
I'm not surprised at all - once you get your head into the synth you can get some great sounds. There are some it just won't make, no matter how hard you try, but, there's always alternative ways of realising the track/clip in question.bjporter wrote:Amazing we're getting so many entries. This synth gets finer with age it seems.
Some very fine entries too ...
dB
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- KVRAF
- 2399 posts since 7 Mar, 2014
doctorbob wrote:I'm not surprised at all - once you get your head into the synth you can get some great sounds. There are some it just won't make, no matter how hard you try, but, there's always alternative ways of realising the track/clip in question.bjporter wrote:Amazing we're getting so many entries. This synth gets finer with age it seems.
I also found that it would clip *some* of it's own sounds (and the meter is a bit "iffy" and doesn't always show it), and you sometimes get that nasty digital clip click/buzz sound (so it's not clipping in the DAW). Just turning the master volume down a bit will cure it (just use your ears!)- so, you have a lower level track sound to start with (but nice and clean), and then .... the masters of the mix can get to work
Some very fine entries too ...
dB