KVR Audio

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:26 am

AH, that's why I didn't quite run into that, because just recently I watched these interesting mixing tips, suggesting to keep the levels fairly low to leave enough headroom for everything to come together and using dynamics. I wasn't too sure about it, because I come from 8bit times, where ever single value was counting and realized that even at 16bit, you lose significant data, if you come in too low. But since DAWs now go 32bit without any troubles, if you went halfway down, you'd still exceed many times the fidelity of 16bit. (blaaahhhblahbladibla - as my dear friend might say!)

Anyhow, I keep my tracks pretty low, with all peaks somewhere between -28db and -10db, only to push them all together in the master or pre-master. But I'm not an expert, of course.... as in: FAR from it!

doctorbob · Post by **doctorbob** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:11 pm

Taron wrote: Anyhow, I keep my tracks pretty low, with all peaks somewhere between -28db and -10db, only to push them all together in the master or pre-master. But I'm not an expert, of course.... as in: FAR from it!

The problem I found was that the synth itself was clipping internally somewhere - so the actual level coming out was perfectly OK as far as the DAW was concerned, but you could hear the nasty noise - simple solution.

Also, most DAW's mix internally at 64-bit floating point now. I remember the HP2114, PDP-8, PDP-11. NOVA as the mini=-computers I worked/programmed. Also ICL, DECSystem KL10 (a 36-bit word in that one!), then onto 32-bit Vaxes, SGI0and Sun workstations and so on ...

dB

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:30 pm

That's comforting to hear for sure. Not sure why I was so worried about internal procedures of DAWs. I think, I might've seen too many sources, written in support of shorts to lower processing load, I suppose. Nowadays that is total nonsense, of course, with modern processors. Anyway...can't shake old concerns, I guess, hahaha.
But it supports the validity of the low track level approach to avoid clipping and maintain plenty of headroom without worries about losing anything. So that's good!

I didn't quite notice internal clipping within Mantra Evo, but probably because I attributed that to it's overall sound. I only checked the waves with an oscilloscope once to see, if there was a constant DC offset of sorts, but that wasn't the case. Even there, though, I hadn't noticed any clipping.
The vicious clicks and signal strengths on and beyond the fringes of our perceived frequency spectrum where most concerning to me, often requiring high- and lowpass filters, only to avoid artifacts.

doctorbob · Post by **doctorbob** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:15 pm

Taron wrote:written in support of shorts to lower processing load, I suppose.

Yeah, I wrote a 4 channel module for the early Ogg/vorbis stuff, while still in development - for my own use on a SGI Indy! So getting 4 channel decode and out in real-time was fun.

Nowadays that is total nonsense, of course, with modern processors. Anyway...can't shake old concerns, I guess, hahah..But it supports the validity of the low track level approach to avoid clipping and maintain plenty of headroom without worries about losing anything. So that's good!

I find I mix like that but once I start adding tracks into the mix, now and then something will peak, so then I will grab all the tracks and drop them all a few dB to get back on track again.

I didn't quite notice internal clipping within Mantra Evo, but probably because I attributed that to it's overall sound. I only checked the waves with an oscilloscope once to see, if there was a constant DC offset of sorts, but that wasn't the case. Even there, though, I hadn't noticed any clipping.

Maybe it wasn't clipping, but some overdrive/distortion effect - but it DID go away when you dropped the master output volume. Go figure ...

The vicious clicks and signal strengths on and beyond the fringes of our perceived frequency spectrum where most concerning to me, often requiring high- and lowpass filters, only to avoid artifacts.

Yup , ALL my tracks had strong low and high pass on them.

dB

PS Did you get to listen to my latest mix? The last section now has a bigger kick presence (after a bit with none) and then a total re-think and re-balance of all the tracks in the last section as well. Has more "punch" now with extra motifs playing too and then on to the nice quiet ending ...

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:50 pm

Ah yes, yeah, you have it quite tonal now...although it seems it's a clear C2, which is rather high and in its stability goes in and out of being foundational to the surrounding chords and harmonic support instead, which is eery for what wants to be bass, you know. The concept of having the body of a kick at around 80hz is to have it somewhat out of the way of truly tonal elements. The tonal component of it then is in support of the bass, you know. Having the kick hang on a C2 that is quite readable can be a little, hmm.... curious, I'd say. I can see this as part of your style, so...sure, why not. Once it sits right again, which happens for a number of the main passages as you were obviously intending for it, of course, it feels fine. Even then it kind of plays almost an observer, rather than like the "Master of Rhythm", you know, hehe. It's more like the "Brother of the Minion of Rhythm, who cheers on the Rhythm section and...bladiblablah..."

...I hope, you know what I mean?! Actually, now that I think of it, I thinks it's more like the cousin of the king of the song, who sticks with family, no matter how weird it gets.

Did I get carried away again?

HandsomeHank · Post by **HandsomeHank** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:23 pm

Hello all;

Late to the OSC 76 party. I've heard your entries; some pretty groovy stuff!

I've made 8 percussion presets which some might find useful and enjoyable --- and I think I have successfully uploaded them onto the page where some of you have put many of your presets. (Also, how do I group my 8 fxp files into an fxb file? The old "2DMB Bank Maker" program creates an fxb file --- I have one with all the KVR-created Mantra presets grouped together in it --- but my DAW doesn't recognize it.)

Running out of time to post an entry in this challenge; so I think rather than spend time making more of my own presets, I'll need to use some of the nice presets already available --- and even using that shortcut there's probably not enough time remaining to make a track and post it.

rockingricky · Post by **rockingricky** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:24 pm

Another try to please you ...

https://soundcloud.com/rockingricky/roc ... nt-rock-me

DAW: Cubase Elements 8

17 instances of Mantra Evo

All sounds made from this "empty" sound.

This time I tried to use as little as possible effects - except the synth FX:
epicVerb
Cubase compressor

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:28 pm

HandsomeHank wrote:Hello all;

Late to the OSC 76 party. I've heard your entries; some pretty groovy stuff!

I've made 8 percussion presets which some might find useful and enjoyable --- ...

I think, you should just have some fun with it, don't get too strict with yourself and let yourself go. Since you already have percussion ready, you might as well just make a decent bass, some pleasant sounds to envelope your percussion and go nuts for some 3 or 4 minutes and ready is your OSC entry! I don't think anyone will hold it against you, if it's a more simple entry this time around. At least I hope that people don't remember every single entry in former OSCs that somehow didn't quite make the cut and go: "OH, THAT guy again", before they even start listening, hahaha!?

So, yeah, relax, enjoy and just make a little track. I want to believe that 3 days should suffice for a light-hearted track.

doctorbob · Post by **doctorbob** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:29 pm

Taron wrote:Ah yes, yeah, you have it quite tonal now...although it seems it's a clear C2, which is rather high and in its stability goes in and out of being foundational to the surrounding chords and harmonic support instead, which is eery for what wants to be bass, you know.

It's actually a C1, but my kick patch does seem to put out too much energy in the higher harmonics - so instead of trying to EQ/notch them out I had done a new kick and transposed the MIDI driver down to C0 - and it's sounds much better. )The old patch is still in there, but automated down to avoid you hearing that high "note", but still retaining the initial thwack! Many thanks. Hope you like the new and improved version (last one!).

dB

Astralp · Post by **Astralp** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:14 pm

Started a track last weekend and went off it, so made a new one this weekend.

Using:

Cubase 8

13 x Mantra Evo (starting with an empty preset)

Cubase Plug-ins:

5 x Autopan
5 Roomworks SE
2 Roomworks
2 x Ping Pong Delay
1 x Mono delay
1 x Stereo delay
1 x DJ EQ
1 x Dual Filter
3 x StudioEQ
1 x UV22HR

Free 3rd party

1 x Density mk III
1 x Loudmax
1 x Voxengo Span

https://soundcloud.com/astralp/astralp- ... dub-osc-76

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:43 pm

Very, very, very pleasant!

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:45 pm

doctorbob wrote: It's actually a C1, but my kick patch does seem to put out too much energy in the higher harmonics - so instead of trying to EQ/notch them out I had done a new kick and transposed the MIDI driver down to C0 - and it's sounds much better. )The old patch is still in there, but automated down to avoid you hearing that high "note", but still retaining the initial thwack! Many thanks. Hope you like the new and improved version (last one!).

dB

UH, YES, now the kick sounds and feels like an official kick! GREAT!

doctorbob · Post by **doctorbob** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:48 am

Taron wrote:UH, YES, now the kick sounds and feels like an official kick! GREAT!

Thank you

... hope my track now appeals to the masses of the assembled OSC and KVR communities

dB

HandsomeHank · Post by **HandsomeHank** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:32 pm

So I can finish my track in time to enter it into the challenge, I'm trying to make an organ patch that actually sounds like an organ --- usually the easiest instrument to simulate, right? Needs some kind of tweaking to sound like an organ, but I can't figure out what that necessary tweaking is. As strange as it may seem, adjustments to D, S, and R seem to have no effect for me. I'm missing something here.

If someone has the time and desire to look at the patch and play with it, I would love some insight into what I need to do to make this patch sound like an organ. It's on the KVR Mantra Evo uploads page: http://www.kvraudio.com/product/mantra- ... /downloads

my gratitude for your help on this

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:04 pm

I don't know what kind of organ sound you're after with your preset, though? An organ with fade-up over the LFO? That's very bold, because the LFO is not polyphone, you know. There are a few problems with your patch, including the attack, because it creates a low thump, that will require filtering to avoid weird frequency mess, you know. The release produces a curious lift in amplitude that seems mildly unintentional as well?!

For a classic organ, you'd have full sound from start to finish, you know.

Like this:
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/mantra- ... /downloads

It's based off of your patch, actually, haha...but, uhm...not too much left, I guess. But it's just a quicky! Feels organy, though.

did a small update, it's more authentic now, I think.

One Synth Challenge #76: Mantra Evo (Syntax Project Wins!)