KVR Audio

Twrogstudio · Post by **Twrogstudio** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:18 am

Generally I find Satin capable of much more subtle, transparent sounds than VTM. It can be made to be obvious, but that's only one of it's many facets.

little mike · Post by **little mike** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:13 pm

what would be the setup to imitate real world process? tape as first insert on all tracks (but not on busses?) plus as last insert on master?

f.e. do you put the tape on the kick channel and snare etc or on the buss with all drums combined because in the real world the drums would be recorded to one tape all together and then they hit the console?

i am always after a more transparent sound or rather have the ability to control the amount of color/saturation a plugin adds to my track so satin seems to be the one for me. i don`t really have a choice anyway because slate digital products require the ilok dongle which i will never buy.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:24 pm

little mike wrote:what would be the setup to imitate real world process? tape as first insert on all tracks (but not on busses?) plus as last insert on master?

That's usually a good starting point. Some elements of a mix might not even get a tape sim at all if I don't think it's needed or makes the track better in any way.

little mike wrote:f.e. do you put the tape on the kick channel and snare etc or on the buss with all drums combined because in the real world the drums would be recorded to one tape all together and then they hit the console?

In the 60s, all drums may have been getting output onto one track, but as more tracks became available the more common thing was to record each drum individually. No hard and fast rules on any of that, so experiment.

little mike wrote:i am always after a more transparent sound or rather have the ability to control the amount of color/saturation a plugin adds to my track so satin seems to be the one for me. i don`t really have a choice anyway because slate digital products require the ilok dongle which i will never buy.

Less processing = more transparent. So with that in mind: tape sims and console effects may not be for you. It's all a matter of taste.

little mike · Post by **little mike** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:16 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
little mike wrote:what would be the setup to imitate real world process? tape as first insert on all tracks (but not on busses?) plus as last insert on master?
That's usually a good starting point. Some elements of a mix might not even get a tape sim at all if I don't think it's needed or makes the track better in any way.

little mike wrote:f.e. do you put the tape on the kick channel and snare etc or on the buss with all drums combined because in the real world the drums would be recorded to one tape all together and then they hit the console?
In the 60s, all drums may have been getting output onto one track, but as more tracks became available the more common thing was to record each drum individually. No hard and fast rules on any of that, so experiment.

little mike wrote:i am always after a more transparent sound or rather have the ability to control the amount of color/saturation a plugin adds to my track so satin seems to be the one for me. i don`t really have a choice anyway because slate digital products require the ilok dongle which i will never buy.
Less processing = more transparent. So with that in mind: tape sims and console effects may not be for you. It's all a matter of taste.

great details. helps a lot. many thanks!

i am already using britson as a console and so far i think it fits with my music very well and since my music is more "vintage" i was looking to imitate an "old school" signal path. as with britson; i like those things to be there but not as audible as an effect.

Kindred · Post by **Kindred** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:51 am

What are some of your favourite presets in Satin? (and for what purpose?)

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:41 pm

There's an ATR preset in Satin that I just use as my default (not at my DAW right now to confirm). It has a nice big bass boost that I like, and just makes everything sound bigger as a result. There's also a Studer A810 preset that sounds great on the master.

I've made a few custom presets that have a bit of wow and flutter for more old school effect type scenarios (like piano - for some reason, a bit of wow and flutter and vintage noise just ALWAYS makes piano sound right to me - probably because most piano libraries I use are very clean and I'm looking for something that's more Beatles than Alicia Keys).

electro · Post by **electro** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:40 pm

little mike wrote:what would be the setup to imitate real world process? tape as first insert on all tracks (but not on busses?) plus as last insert on master?

with ganged tape plugins on the 1st insert its important to monitor the levels going into the tape.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:48 pm

A "real world" tape signal flow would often mean larger number of mics being bussed to a smaller number of tape tracks. Eg a common setup for me will group together kick in and out mics, with one instance of Satin on the group. Likewise snare top and bottom. If there are a lot of toms you might want to consider grouping those too, and (conceptually) printing them all to a pair of tape tracks instead of one track each.

Also bear in mind that signals were often processed and EQed before they hit the tape, either to reduce background noise (compressing to reduce dynamic range, or boosting HF to tape then cutting after) or to optimise the effect of the tape saturation. So you don't necessarily have to keep your tape sims in the first insert slot.

little mike · Post by **little mike** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:20 pm

thanks guys! great tips posted here. today i installed the demo of satin and thanks to its presets and their detailed descriptions i had the setup i asked for earlier in the thread in no time.

sounds very nice but man, this thing wants you to really have some cpu power, does it? satin on 9 tracks plus one on the master with nothing else going on (empty project) and it`s already up to 16,5 %. are there performance adjustments with the liscensed version? (i have the experience with other plugin demos where the demo needs a lot more then the actual, full version.)

sascha · Post by **sascha** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:39 pm

Let me cite the manual:
"- Internal sample rate 352 – 384kHz
(depends on project sample rate, 8-times oversampling at 44.1kHz)
- Bias oscillator frequency: 118 – 128kHz"

That doesn't come for free.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:46 pm

This is to encourage an authentic workflow. Make some preliminary mix decisions, apply tape sims, bounce the result, then work from the bounces.

For even more authenticity, pretend you only have 8 tape tracks available. If you need more you have to bounce some tracks via another instance of Satin.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:48 pm

(Or you could buy a faster computer!)

little mike · Post by **little mike** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:39 pm

IIRs wrote:(Or you could buy a faster computer!)

IIRs wrote:This is to encourage an authentic workflow. Make some preliminary mix decisions, apply tape sims, bounce the result, then work from the bounces.

For even more authenticity, pretend you only have 8 tape tracks available. If you need more you have to bounce some tracks via another instance of Satin.

i could and will do sometime in the future

i am on an intel i5 2500 k 3.30 ghz quad core with 16 gb ram. works for everything i am running right now and with satin on an actual project it comes out around 40 - 60 %.

i am more a producer than a mixer and i work mainly with vst instruments. most of them are vienna instruments. my goal is to create a template where the mixing for every instrument is already done and you only have to load it up and programm your tracks. with minor adjustments here and there, but basicly every instrument should have its sound already. so bouncing shouldn`t be an option if you understand but i will definitely go with the "only ... 8 tracks available" since my music should sound kind of vintage. like from the 50`s or 60`s. that is the reason i am interested in the recreation of that signal path. doesn`t have to be exactly the same (which is impossible anyway) but maybe something...

Tp3 · Post by **Tp3** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:58 am

sascha wrote:Let me cite the manual:
"- Internal sample rate 352 – 384kHz
(depends on project sample rate, 8-times oversampling at 44.1kHz)
- Bias oscillator frequency: 118 – 128kHz"

That doesn't come for free.

Now I understand what brings my 9550 to its knees...

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:24 pm

Tp3 wrote:
sascha wrote:Let me cite the manual:
"- Internal sample rate 352 – 384kHz
(depends on project sample rate, 8-times oversampling at 44.1kHz)
- Bias oscillator frequency: 118 – 128kHz"

That doesn't come for free.
Now I understand what brings my 9550 to its knees...

Well, hehe, it doesn't do so on most other computers though.

Thing is, tape as such has a HF-signal (150kHz "Bias" signal) which is an integral part of how tape magnetisation works. Any tape emulation must oversample to 300+kHz internally or the HF signal will cause bad aliasing. If a tape plug-in doesn't oversample as much and has no audible aliasing... it doesn't emulate the HF signal and is therefore no tape emulation

u-he Satin or Slate VTM?