Klanghelm MJUC and MJUC jr. released

[Endor-8o8]

Just bought the full MJUC based purely on the raving reviews here Bit of a cheeky question (and possibly one that's not easily answerable), but if I have this and have also bought the GE edition of TDR's Kotelnikov, is there a 'need' for DC8C - What can DC8C offer where the other two might be lacking ?

Think I've got a bit of a plugin addiction !

DC8C2 is a more technical dynamic processor in its user interface approach.
I also remember Tony saying that it's a pure digital compressor while MJUC seems to be his analog/mojo/colorful/whatever dynamic tool. And like I said DC8C2 is a swiss army knife in the compressor realm, it has a very extended control over the different aspects of the compressor while MJUC is aimed at fast and pleasant results with a more "restricted" user control.
Don't forget that they aren't using also not the same topology, as MJUC is Vari-mu based and DC8C2 isn't.

[Endor-8o8]

Think I've got a bit of a plugin addiction !

Welcome to the club

...GAS ?...here on KVR ? Come on you must be kiddin'...

[mcbpete]

DC8C2 is a more technical dynamic processor in its user interface approach.
I also remember Tony saying that it's a pure digital compressor while MJUC seems to be his analog/mojo/colorful/whatever dynamic tool. And like I said DC8C2 is a swiss army knife in the compressor realm, it has a very extended control over the different aspects of the compressor while MJUC is aimed at fast and pleasant results with a more "restricted" user control.
Don't forget that they aren't using also not the same topology, as MJUC is Vari-mu based and DC8C2 isn't.

Thanks, yeah that's why I wasn't sure if I was covered with Kotelnikov - MJUC seemed perfect for the coloured sounding compression but wasn't sure if DC8C and Kotelnikov kinda shared their clinical digital compression techniques so only needed the one of them.... Ohhh choices !

[fese]

Just bought the full MJUC based purely on the raving reviews here Bit of a cheeky question (and possibly one that's not easily answerable), but if I have this and have also bought the GE edition of TDR's Kotelnikov, is there a 'need' for DC8C - What can DC8C offer where the other two might be lacking ?

Think I've got a bit of a plugin addiction !

Well, you are definitely in the wrong forum if you're looking for a cure...

What DC8C offers is control over nearly every aspect of the detection and gain reduction circuit of a compressor. Like presswerk it is more building blocks for a compressor, offering maximum flexibility.
Actually, the choice is quite easy here: If you prefer simple and easy to use compressors like MJUC or the vintage classics (LA2A, 1176) with few knobs and working result oriented, then Dc8C is most likely not the best choice (although you can cover a lot with the four easy modes) . If you like tweaking and diving down into plugins and are a process oriented person, then you are pretty much in compressor heaven with it.

EDIT: kotelnikov and Dc8C are different beast IMHO, DC8C is much more flexible and you can get quite dirty and drastic results with it, as well as clean compression.

[mcbpete]

Like presswerk it is more building blocks for a compressor, offering maximum flexibility.... If you like tweaking and diving down into plugins and are a process oriented person, then you are pretty much in compressor heaven with it.

I'm sold

[Endor-8o8]

Just bought the full MJUC based purely on the raving reviews here Bit of a cheeky question (and possibly one that's not easily answerable), but if I have this and have also bought the GE edition of TDR's Kotelnikov, is there a 'need' for DC8C - What can DC8C offer where the other two might be lacking ?

Think I've got a bit of a plugin addiction !

EDIT: kotelnikov and Dc8C are different beast IMHO, DC8C is much more flexible and you can get quite dirty and drastic results with it, as well as clean compression.

From what I know from Kotelnikov GE and as a user of DC8C, like you said they're different beasts, definitely.
My post could be confusing concerning the "pure digital" compressor. By these words I meant that DC8C is more on the surgical/technical side than MJUC which is a mojo machine imo.
But like you said, the input gain options in DC8C2 can make it sound quite dirty and aggressive...
I think that you comparison with Presswerk is right, they both share that will to offer a dive into the dynamic processing and all its stages.

[fese]

...
But like you said, the input gain options in DC8C2 can make it sound quite dirty and aggressive...
...

Also, don't forget the negative ratio, that can do serious damage

[Endor-8o8]

...
But like you said, the input gain options in DC8C2 can make it sound quite dirty and aggressive...
...

Also, don't forget the negative ratio, that can do serious damage

Right ! I tend to forget about it, don't know why I didn't really dig the negative ratio techniques (even when I had the native Mpressor). But I'm aware about the damage it can do...I'll have to dig this, thanks for reminding me that man !

[HcDoom]

Just working on a track with MJUC all over instruments...damn, this sounds good! Incredibly warm and organic sound.

[Monkberry]

Can't wait to try this thing. Getting rave reviews over on Gearslutz. I have to say I've been pretty happy with the Slate compressors as well as PSP Old Timer ME but there's room for another and I always felt DC8C2 was hit or miss for me. Only $25! I'd be a fool not to. That's what I'm telling my self in a rational voice....

[comfortablynick]

Thanks, yeah that's why I wasn't sure if I was covered with Kotelnikov - MJUC seemed perfect for the coloured sounding compression but wasn't sure if DC8C and Kotelnikov kinda shared their clinical digital compression techniques so only needed the one of them.... Ohhh choices !

If you're a compressor junkie, definitely get DC8C as well! It is a "digital" processor meaning it can be completely transparent, or you can use the built-in saturation and crank the input gain to color the sound. You can really emulate many different compressor designs by being able to change the detector behavior, RMS settings, feed-forward/feed-back topologies, program dependency, and all sorts of other goodies. It is similar to Presswerk but quite a bit more reasonably priced (and more stable on the systems I've used them on).

I really can't help but want to support Tony when he keeps giving us these great tools for such reasonable prices (in a market where it seems like the pricing for the majority of plugins has settled at $100 or above). I paid $150 for Slate VBC, mainly for the vari-mu model. I can't say it's any better than MJUC, which cost me about $25! It's a great time for compressor junkies!

Nick

[bmanic]

This has got to be one of the best plugin compressors ever created! And it's a ridiculous 24 euros!

We've never been so spoiled for choice.

Absolutely LOVE the MJUC jr plugin and mk3 algorithm in the full release.

[hermbot]

I ordered mine last night and look forward to testing it this evening. I just wanted to add how much I appreciate Klanghelm's reasonable pricing and respect for the consumer: no silly DRM schemes, no software licensing, no hardware dongle. I pay for it, I get access to a download. I could easily see Tony taking SDRR and selling it as a "bundle" of four consoles and selling each unit piecemeal at $20/pop. Instead we get one solid plugin. Same with the compressors.

[3ee]

I really like that the 3 MKs are quite different from each other and you don't feel that it's rather the case of being a main compressor with 3 different skins + some slight variations...

Each MK has it's own flavor/character and are compressors in their own right ... the one thing in common is the vari-mu architecture of course...

MK1 comp/limiter switch almost makes me feel I have 2 compressors in 1.... seems to affect the time response characteristics a bit so it's very useful to try all the time!

[Compyfox]

Since Tony seems to be overrun with support inquiries of various kinds, I try to help out.

Some things/questions:

-I think I noticed a serious bug regarding CPU hang/buildup while playback is stopped in FL Studio, where do I report?

http://www.klanghelm.com/support.php

Keep in mind that the more information about your rig, OS version, bit version, host version and steps on how you can recreate the bug, the better.

what about the Sta-limit or Manley vari-mu? ...does MK3 have something to do with them more or less?

The closest to the "Gates" STA-Level (from what the SKnote STA-LIMIT is a clone of; same with GTS-39 which is a clone of the Gates/Retro SA-39) in my opinion is Mk1. You can also get good results towards the Abbey Road/EMI RS-124 with that model or Mk2.

Manley Vari-Mu is a little bit "younger" (actually, mid 90ies, Universal Audio's clone lists "Manley Labs' flagship compressor since 1994"), so I'd go for Mk3. People on GS already mentioned that this is more along those lines.


I've personally waited a long time for Klanghelm's release to finally move on from a particular Sicilian company. And I'm not looking back.

-The density and istage, although I kinda understand what they do, can you give some tips on how to notice them more easily? Maybe some workflow directions on when should we tick them on or off?

See Density as a "compression changer", as it adds a second VariMu stage (making the compression more aggressive, or "more dense"). The IStage switch is basically a more clean output stage that works independent of the whole gain stage circuit.

Take note of the tooltips.

-How to you pronounce the name and what does it stand for? ..I though it would be cool to read it like "nuke" but with an m as it makes sense

There is no pronunciation known.
But try to say it how English people say the greek letter μ (mu), and then add the C. Might not sound pleasant, but it's the biggest hint at the actual description of the plugin. And quite clever at that as well.

μ - c or rather (vari) μ - compressor

A suggested improvement: I like how the bottom part with the extra settings can be switched in and out of view neatly.

How about applying the same concept on some other (basically) "set and forget" options on top not to crowd the image with stuff like: image size, calibration etc... or simply moving them down below perhaps?

Tony might answer this in a better way, but it's not really intuitive IMO, and needs extra lines of code.
Granted, you only set the screen size once (usually), same with the calibration and HQ mode. But there are users that often reach for that just for A/B purposes.

And there is only so much GUI space you can work with.




This one was asked on page 2 already:

VST3 not mentioned anywhere...

The short, simple, yet (sadly) brutally honest answer:
MJUC/MJUCjr doesn't use external side chaining, micro adjustments of pitch and the likes. So there is no definite need to port a VST3 version.


The long answer:
There were severe and rather strange bugs reported with the VST3 version in various hosts that were or still are hard to fix (if at all), while the majority of test users reported that the VST2 version ran fine instead. Due to this, Tony (just like Tokyo Dawn Labs, U-HE and AdmiralQuality before him) pulled the VST3 version.




And one final note:

And as Christian Budde once said to me (which adds further weight to Mercado's post):
"You can only have two out of three: High Quality (i.e. through OS), Low Latency, Low CPU usage"

Let this be known from now on as the "Budde theorem" or the "QLC theorem" (analog to the CAP theorem)

It basically says nothing - it's just a tautology since it's all relative...

Yes, it is dependent on certain conditions. But you can ask x-amount of developers what they run into during programming, where they have to "ignore" all forms of optimization and just go for it.

So in order to keep the CPU usage low, they need to cut corners that far, so that people don't notice it anymore (Steven Slate called it "copying the Mona Lisa, but you only realize it's a copy if you get up close"), then drum up the marketing and people don't care anymore. Or bump the Latency to an insane amount, but then it's not possible to use the tool in realtime anymore (ToneBoosters' Barricade comes to mind, or did anyone criticize Variety of Sound for having Latency, even with the Stateful Saturation?).

You can try similar, if you bump up the buffer size of your ADC/DAC to higher values than 512. The ASIO load should reduce drastically.


Then again... what is the bar for the benchmark?
First gen i7 processors? Or current gen (I think we're on gen 3 by now) i7's?
What buffer size are we talking about?
What sampling rate?


Tony wrote it to me on release day:
"Good tools are expensive on resources, there is not much room for improvement anymore".

And to be honest, not many people criticized the Gates/Retro SA-39 clone by SKnote for it's high CPU/ASIO load (due fixed 8xOS), or the other compressor clones after that. People just accepted it (along with the huge filesize - 27MB compared to MJUC's 8MB or Kotelnikov's 5MB, even Slate's FG-MU with the iLok routines is only 14MB) and said "you're <insert random insult>, you have to stay with the times, upgrade your CPU! Stop complaining". Or what about the UAD users? How many complaints do you read with most recent models that basically eat the DSP chip for breakfast?


C.Budde made this comment over half a decade ago already.
And it still applies up until this day. Though YMMV of course.