Hi Guys,
I know OT but I'm hoping a guitar afficionado can help me out here. It is well documented that Jake E. Lee never used a whammy bar but used various tricks to simulate the pitch bends that whammy/tremolo bars allow you to do.
These include
1) Tuning Down after playing the note
2) Bending the string in front of the nut (can also be simulated through simultaneous use of natural harmonics and string bending)
3) Pulling the guitar towards you and then away from you - I need help with this!
Can someone describe how Jake does number 3 in this video? I tried replicating this technique and I can't get a real dive bomb sound like he is. I did notice that when I let a note ring and then turn the guitar upside down and flip it back right side up that it does give me a little bend.
But I'm not sure exactly what creates the sound because when I pull the guitar towards me and then away from me it barely bends the pitch. He gets a pretty wide bend from whatever he is doing and that is what I am looking to go for. Any tips or a more in-depth explanation would be welcome!
See example here:
1:14 - 1:16 and
1:56 - 1:58
Guitar Question: Simulating Dive Bombs Without Whammy/Tremolo Bar Or Whammy Pedal
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- KVRAF
- 8141 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Darkest Kent, UK
At 1:14 he's holding the top horn and the headstock and applying pressure, literally bending the neck a little. I've seen a lot of people do this, maybe showmanship, maybe better stability than using a trem or a bit of both... i'd be careful if you try this, guitars are pretty sturdy but you don't want to go breaking something... 
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- KVRAF
- 1724 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from betwixt
1 and 2 above are awesome techniques for a hardtail / fixed bridge.
Personally... I'd never do #3. Something will break, and I love my guitars. If you are wealthy enough to replace them, then go ahead I suppose. I don't like bending the neck when there's already a lot of tension on it.
I've found nothing does what a floyd-rose equipped guitar can do. It's like playing a completely different instrument, in a lot of ways. The digitech whammy is its own beast and comes really really close, can act as a stand-in. But really it does a whole lot of different things.
Most of my playing life has been on a fixed bridge instrument. I simply incorporated a lot of pick slides, scraping the pick edge over the harmonics-rich area immediately over the pickups / between the bridge and neck pickups; lots of practice with pinch harmonics while pitch bending, things like that to simulate whammy bar stuff.
Personally... I'd never do #3. Something will break, and I love my guitars. If you are wealthy enough to replace them, then go ahead I suppose. I don't like bending the neck when there's already a lot of tension on it.
I've found nothing does what a floyd-rose equipped guitar can do. It's like playing a completely different instrument, in a lot of ways. The digitech whammy is its own beast and comes really really close, can act as a stand-in. But really it does a whole lot of different things.
Most of my playing life has been on a fixed bridge instrument. I simply incorporated a lot of pick slides, scraping the pick edge over the harmonics-rich area immediately over the pickups / between the bridge and neck pickups; lots of practice with pinch harmonics while pitch bending, things like that to simulate whammy bar stuff.
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- KVRAF
- 16861 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
Maybe some guitars have a more flexible construction than others and thus bend more when under abuse. I never did more than one semitone.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1086 posts since 17 Jun, 2012
Thank you! After hearing this explanation, I tried what you said and it seems to work! I guess what I didn't realize was that doing the motions themselves do very little and its much about applying pressure in the right spots? Really appreciate this helpful post. Must be a guitar masterGaryG wrote:At 1:14 he's holding the top horn and the headstock and applying pressure, literally bending the neck a little. I've seen a lot of people do this, maybe showmanship, maybe better stability than using a trem or a bit of both... i'd be careful if you try this, guitars are pretty sturdy but you don't want to go breaking something...
1 and 2 above are awesome techniques for a hardtail / fixed bridge.
I think those are awesome techniques too! For number 2, I actually stopped bending around the nut area and found I could get the same sound by hitting a natural harmonic and flicking the string (immediately or it doesn't work) into a bend and I actually have more control this way.
I like your style! This is what I try to do as well. Those little nuances I think can take a great player into legendary territoryMost of my playing life has been on a fixed bridge instrument. I simply incorporated a lot of pick slides, scraping the pick edge over the harmonics-rich area immediately over the pickups / between the bridge and neck pickups; lots of practice with pinch harmonics while pitch bending, things like that to simulate whammy bar stuff.
One of the things I love about Jake's playful is this tasteful stuff in the right places. Pretty much those techniques. By the way, given this style, are you also a Jake fan???Good point. That would be cool to construct a hard tail/fixed bridge with this in mind. I'm sure Jake's custom Charvels have something like this going on.Maybe some guitars have a more flexible construction than others and thus bend more when under abuse. I never did more than one semitone.
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- KVRAF
- 8141 posts since 13 Jan, 2003 from Darkest Kent, UK
Ha! Far from it... can just about string a few chords together, never mind any of this 'lead' playing malarky...AC222 wrote: Must be a guitar master
I just like guitars and watching people play, picked up stuff like this over the years.-
- KVRAF
- 2158 posts since 11 Oct, 2007 from Almanya
1) Doesn't work so well with an Evertune bridge. Also too high risk of snapping a string, absolute no-go for me.
3) I do that occasionally to give a holding note some vibrato, but not a huge fan of it. Make sure you fixate the body of the guitar well, squeeze it firmly with the triangle of the arm resting on it, the leg it rests on and your torso. Then eeever so gently (but firmly) pull the neck back, this will bend it and raise the tension on the strings, resulting in the pitch of the played note/s rising. Or eeever so gently (but firmly) push the neck forward, away from you, this will lower the tensions on the strings and make the pitch of the played note/s drop. The important part is that the neck moves but the guitar doesn't.
2) Love this, but only works with non-fixed nuts. Doesn't work with Floyd Rose type trems or bridges (yes, Ibanez has unbendable FR type trems in some of their guitars, for example Mick Thompson signatures), at least not if you have the nut thingies (whatever they're called in English) screwed on tight. Loosening them will lose tuning stability, but will make strings bendable in front of the nut. Sadly, also doesn't work well with Evertune bridges.
If you have a guitar that lets strings be bent in front of the nut, then try playing a squeaky pinch harmonic before bending the string. Or even better, pre-bend the string in front of the nut, play a pinch harmonic note and then release the pre-bent string. Noooice.
What's pretty cool for high(er) gain sounds is moving your hand over a pickup and thumping the hand on the strings really hard. When thumping, push the strings so far down that they actually come in contact with the magnets on the pickups. Don't press for minutes, just a quick hard *thud*. Screeches like hell, lovely. Reminds me of the Whammy screams Jesse Ketive (Emmure) uses so often.
Don't know if that'll work with EMGs tho, and of course you'd probably not want to do that with pickups that have a metal cover... guess what: scratches. The satin black metal cover of my SD Pegasus will never forgive me. :'(
3) I do that occasionally to give a holding note some vibrato, but not a huge fan of it. Make sure you fixate the body of the guitar well, squeeze it firmly with the triangle of the arm resting on it, the leg it rests on and your torso. Then eeever so gently (but firmly) pull the neck back, this will bend it and raise the tension on the strings, resulting in the pitch of the played note/s rising. Or eeever so gently (but firmly) push the neck forward, away from you, this will lower the tensions on the strings and make the pitch of the played note/s drop. The important part is that the neck moves but the guitar doesn't.
2) Love this, but only works with non-fixed nuts. Doesn't work with Floyd Rose type trems or bridges (yes, Ibanez has unbendable FR type trems in some of their guitars, for example Mick Thompson signatures), at least not if you have the nut thingies (whatever they're called in English) screwed on tight. Loosening them will lose tuning stability, but will make strings bendable in front of the nut. Sadly, also doesn't work well with Evertune bridges.
If you have a guitar that lets strings be bent in front of the nut, then try playing a squeaky pinch harmonic before bending the string. Or even better, pre-bend the string in front of the nut, play a pinch harmonic note and then release the pre-bent string. Noooice.
What's pretty cool for high(er) gain sounds is moving your hand over a pickup and thumping the hand on the strings really hard. When thumping, push the strings so far down that they actually come in contact with the magnets on the pickups. Don't press for minutes, just a quick hard *thud*. Screeches like hell, lovely. Reminds me of the Whammy screams Jesse Ketive (Emmure) uses so often.
Don't know if that'll work with EMGs tho, and of course you'd probably not want to do that with pickups that have a metal cover... guess what: scratches. The satin black metal cover of my SD Pegasus will never forgive me. :'(
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- KVRAF
- 3278 posts since 22 Jul, 2009
not sure if this will help, but if you down-tune a ways to where the strings are more like wet noodles, you can bend a string 'way up' and then strike a note, ease off on the bend to simulate 'dive bombing'. of course, having a guitar where the strings are like 'wet noodles' can lead to a lot of other problems.... but it definitely helps with wild string bends. ymmv