Diva Vs. Real Analog

[do_androids_dream]

I'm sorry if I've managed to offend you. But, it is quite a powerful statement that I felt compelled to respond to as you said it in a public forum - you're basically saying that the convenience of your workflow is more important than the sound of your music. That is a pretty big thing.

Edit - sorry, I'm probably taking it too seriously - I tend to overthink things, go to deep profound levels all too easily lol. Yes, when you factor in that the hardware gets in the way of your creativity ('frustrating and time-consuming') then that's different. I'm just used to the idea of suffering for ones art lol.

No need to apologize my friend as no offense was taken. I just felt that an equally strong response was needed to your claim. My whole point was there is no right way to make music, regardless of medium. What matters is the end result and the experience in the moment. If hardware does that for you then excellent! It does the exact opposite for me and in the end software gets me to the end goal of creativity while hardware makes me feel like I'm always prepping.

It's wonderful that we can even have such choice.

Cool The truth is hardware can be a bitch - especially when some of my favourites don't even have midi lol. Once you lay down a part and want to lay down another you have to accept you're going to lose your settings etc. All the synths in this track me and mate did are all hand played hard synths - there was a bit of suffering and swearing involved lol. - https://touched.bandcamp.com/track/highrise-highlife

Yes it is wonderful to have the choice.

[zerocrossing]

Bottom Line: That's good enough for me.

The title of this thread is "Diva vs. Real Analog" not "What sounds good enough for Wagtunes."

[wagtunes]

Bottom Line: That's good enough for me.

The title of this thread is "Diva vs. Real Analog" not "What sounds good enough for Wagtunes."

Okay...

Diva vs Real Analog

Diva is good enough for me.

Sheessh

[zerocrossing]

Played my Diva along with this to see how they'd sound together...

Differences? Yes. I can now hear them.

Your path to the Hardware side is almost complete. JOIN US... OR DIE... er, well not die, well, eventually die, but not from lack of hardware synths.

You do not have to spend $5K on an analog to get this sound. As I mentioned earlier, you can buy the ATC-1 used for $500ish. Even cheaper for a Bass Station 2, but I don't think the BS2 sounds as good, but I do like it for more Rolandish kinds of sound.

[do_androids_dream]

Even cheaper for a Bass Station 2, but I don't think the BS2 sounds as good, but I do like it for more Rolandish kinds of sound.

Yes that is the BS1/2's sound in a nutshell. Was never that excited by it but it always found its way into a track somewhere!

[wagtunes]

Played my Diva along with this to see how they'd sound together...

Differences? Yes. I can now hear them.

Your path to the Hardware side is almost complete. JOIN US... OR DIE... er, well not die, well, eventually die, but not from lack of hardware synths.

You do not have to spend $5K on an analog to get this sound. As I mentioned earlier, you can buy the ATC-1 used for $500ish. Even cheaper for a Bass Station 2, but I don't think the BS2 sounds as good, but I do like it for more Rolandish kinds of sound.

Again, I own hardware synths. They're stacked up in my basement where they're staying until I sell the ones that are left. I've already sold about half my collection including my first Moog.

I'm not a soft synth fanboy. I'm a 57 year old songwriter/musician who is tired of cables and repairs and having to build a room the size of Texas to put his collection. I'm tired of analog hiss and pots that get so damn dusty that you can hear them when you turn them.

I've repaired my reel to reel no less than 6 times.

The world I live in now is simply easier and sound wise I can live with what I'm losing not using great analog gear.

Different strokes for different folks.

[zerocrossing]

Whether software or hardware freaks, you guys are so lucky to have your preferences so fixed and straightforward. I contrast, I change my preferences once a week and sometimes on a daily basis. If you are talking about plasticity of the brain, you are talking about me.

I think we're exactly the same in this respect. I haven't pulled out my analogs or my Rhodes for over a year. I feel like it's a pain to connect the cables, the console, the combo amp and so on... not to mention lift the Rhodes!

Yet my position one day will just change. I'll connect a portable combo amp where I don't need to carry anything around and have a short play. I'll realize "wow, I forgot how awesome this is!"

I'll drag everything back next to the DAW, connect it and test it comparing to the plugins I've been using. No comparison. It isn't "better", it's just so radically different.

That sort of change or difference is inspiring. It makes me want to compose or mix a track just to put these instruments to use. I suddenly just want to sit down and play the Rhodes for no reason other than I see the thing, it becomes like an addiction and I'm drawn to it. You know those times you have not much to do, and you might start wasting time online (KVR!) or reading the news, watching TV or whatever; These times I have an irresistible urge to play one of these instruments.

Now I'm certain given a few weeks or months I'll have everything packed away again in the road cases shoved in a closet somewhere and I'll be remembering how amazing it is to do huge wide unisons or bizarre additive sounds in a plugin.

Or maybe I'll be on the DX7, or the D50, or the piano... Who knows?

People may have their reasons they feel they can't cope with all this gear. It takes up space. I hate huge keyboards like the Junos or Jupiters for this reason, the DX7 feels like it weighs a ton!

Still though I can't see myself just giving them up and making the excuse that software comes "close enough for rock&roll". That would be denial and justification for a decision I was forced to make because I didn't have the means to achieve what I really wanted.

Fortunately I own a closet. I can throw that stuff in there.

Exactly. What I don't understand is the near religious adherence to one side or another of this argument. I think it starts with people who can't afford, or have space for, hardware and feel like they're being judged as "less than." Also, some vintage fans feeling possibly a bit silly for dropping way too much money for some vintage synth. Each side begins a battle, mostly to convince themselves they made the right choice. Of course they did. It's the choice that's right for them.

Of course, I have to say this at least once per hardware vs. software thread, that the quality of the music by far eclipses any sonic characteristics of the instrument you use.

[do_androids_dream]

I'm tired of analog hiss...

One can never be tired of the sacred analog hiss! 'tats where the magic is

[zerocrossing]

Played my Diva along with this to see how they'd sound together...

Differences? Yes. I can now hear them.

Your path to the Hardware side is almost complete. JOIN US... OR DIE... er, well not die, well, eventually die, but not from lack of hardware synths.

You do not have to spend $5K on an analog to get this sound. As I mentioned earlier, you can buy the ATC-1 used for $500ish. Even cheaper for a Bass Station 2, but I don't think the BS2 sounds as good, but I do like it for more Rolandish kinds of sound.

Again, I own hardware synths. They're stacked up in my basement where they're staying until I sell the ones that are left. I've already sold about half my collection including my first Moog.

I'm not a soft synth fanboy. I'm a 57 year old songwriter/musician who is tired of cables and repairs and having to build a room the size of Texas to put his collection. I'm tired of analog hiss and pots that get so damn dusty that you can hear them when you turn them.

I've repaired my reel to reel no less than 6 times.

The world I live in now is simply easier and sound wise I can live with what I'm losing not using great analog gear.

Different strokes for different folks.

I sense a conflict in you. Give in to your fear. FEEL YOUR HATE.

From what I can tell then, what you're actually saying is you don't like old vintage hardware. Fair enough. I'm totally with you on that if that's what you're talking about. That's why I always bring up the Studio Electronics gear in these threads. They're not vintage. You can get them repaired (not that I've ever needed to). They have a full complement of MIDI control and other modern features. They're pretty easy to integrate into any DAW based studio.

I frankly don't care what you do. I have no skin in that fight, but I bet if you took the proceeds of a few of your vintage synth sales and put them to a modern analog, you'd be surprised at how much you enjoyed it.

[Tony Ostinato]

humans make religion out of everything.

and i think maybe i know why. its all about resolution and processing power, a 1 bit function that simply quantizes everything to good or bad saves tons of both.

whereas if you attempt a full on high resolution assessment of everything you encounter your brain would grind to a halt and you would get more and more results towards an indistinguishable middle line.

and so you see a lot of overly passionate debates over things that are very similar.

[EnGee]

I believe that comparing Diva with a VA hardware is more valid than comparing it with MS-20 or other analog synths.

For example, I would like to know how Diva stands against King Korg or Jupiter 50/80? Those can be considered emulations of the real analog just like Diva. So, for me it is more valid to compare an emulation with an emulation.

On the other hand, Diva is a polyphonic synth, so why not compare it to a polyphonic analog? The price of such analog is still high, while I believe a monophonic analog like MS-20 mini or a paraphonic(?) one like in pulse 2, are affordable synths now. So, for me it makes more sense to consider Diva + a fast computer vs a polyphonic analog.

The thing I find it difficult is to find a digital hardware (especially additive) for a reasonable price. The only one I believe it has a very affordable price is Waldorf Blofeld! But this is a wavetable synth. Are there any new affordable hardware which are successors to DX7 or Kawai K5, for example, for sale now? I believe here, the software are hard to beat by the hardware manufacturers.

To sum it up as my opinion:

- Diva is a great synth as an emulation of a polyphonic analog, which is still expensive.
- Even if we compare Diva with a VA like King Korg, we must not forget the negatives and positives of each usages.
- Monophonic analogs are more affordable now than in the past (like ms-20 mini and others). It make sense to have one at least.
- Let's be free with our setup! There is no right or wrong in Arts and Music except when we try to generalize our concepts and be close minded.
- Between Diva and Prophet 12 (if they are the same cost) I would choose Prophet 12 (or any other new analog polyphonic synth).
- I can't afford Prophet 12 (or similar), but I can afford MS-20 mini (or Pulse2) with Diva I don't see a problem in such setup

However, I wish the thread was "Diva vs King Korg". This is really a much reasonable, practical and more useful comparison for people who can afford the two.

[wagtunes]

I sense a conflict in you. Give in to your fear. FEEL YOUR HATE.

From what I can tell then, what you're actually saying is you don't like old vintage hardware. Fair enough. I'm totally with you on that if that's what you're talking about. That's why I always bring up the Studio Electronics gear in these threads. They're not vintage. You can get them repaired (not that I've ever needed to). They have a full complement of MIDI control and other modern features. They're pretty easy to integrate into any DAW based studio.

I frankly don't care what you do. I have no skin in that fight, but I bet if you took the proceeds of a few of your vintage synth sales and put them to a modern analog, you'd be surprised at how much you enjoyed it.

Look, if I had a billion dollars, I'd buy a big home with a room the size of Carnegie Hall. I'd have a circular setup, kind of like Carl Palmer's drums. I'd hire a team to hook up all my favorite hardware synths and MIDI them to my PC and DAW so that playing them would be no different from playing my ITB synths.

I'd probably get a Schmidt and an Omega 8 as my main synths. I'd then surround myself with all my favorite vintage synths. I'd have a swivel seat for easy access to any of them.

I'd have a PC put together powerful enough to run Diva in triple divine mode if it existed. I'd have every top VST made.

I'd then hire a team to make suggestions of what other stuff to get and put them in charge of getting it.

I'd hire a personal repair man. I'd pay him $250,000 a year just to hang out at my house all day in case something needed fixing. I'd also expect repairs to be made within a week.

But I'm as poor as a church mouse. My income from my music would take me 2 years to be able to afford an Omega 8 and that's if I put every dime of it to saving up for one.

Hardware synths are a dream world for me. They are totally unrealistic given the space available to me and my finances. And since I can't afford to hire a staff and I'd have to hook up everything myself and lug it to get repaired myself, no thanks.

Been there, done that, not doing it again.

Hell, I don't even like going to Sam Ash or similar stores anymore. Before you even get a salesman to wait on you in order to demo something, you'll turn gray and then your hair will fall out. And then they only give you so long to play around with the synth. It's not like downloading a demo and having 30 days to tinker with it. Or other synths that allow you to do everything but just save patches or like Diva that just emits some noise.

At my age, the headaches of hardware or more than I want to deal with.

When I'm loaded rich and can hire people to deal with the crap that I don't like to deal with, maybe then.

Until that day comes, which is highly unlikely, I'm more than content with this collection of soft synths.

• A.N.A.
  ABSynth 5
  ACE
  AM Freehand
  Analog Lab
  Analog Laboratory
  Anti Transpirant 1000
  ARP 2600 V
  ARP 2600 VA
  ART Pyrite
  Avatar ST
  Battery 4
  Bazille
  Blooo
  Blue II
  Brainstormer
  Brzoza
  Charlatan
  CS 80
  Cycle
  Daedalus
  DaHornet
  Deputy
  Dexed
  Discovery Pro
  Diva
  Dominator
  Double Six XXL
  Dune 2
  Eclipsis
  Electra 2
  Element
  FM8
  Fmetal
  Free Alpha
  Funxion
  HaHaHa CS33
  HALion Sonic SE
  Harmor
  IL Autogun
  ImpOSCar 2
  Jupiter 8V
  K700nu
  Kairatune
  KarmaFX Modular
  Kontakt 5
  KX Poly M CSE
  KX Synth X16
  Latte Free
  Lektro
  Lokomotiv
  Loop Mash
  Lucid
  M1
  Massive
  MauSynth
  Mini V
  Modular V
  Mono Fury
  Mono Poly
  Mpowersynth
  Mr Alias Pro
  MS 20
  MUX Modular
  Mystic
  Oberheim SEM
  OBXD
  Olga
  Omnisphere
  OP-X Pro II
  Or2V
  Padshop
  Patchwork Modular System
  PG 8X
  Pianoteq
  Podolski
  Polly 8
  Poly 6
  PPG Wave 2.3
  Prologue
  Prophet V
  Ragnarok
  Rayblaster
  Reaktor 5
  Retrologue
  Revitar
  Rez 3
  Scrooo
  Serenity
  Serum
  Six
  Sonigen Modular
  Spector
  Spectrobits
  String Studio
  Strum Acoustic
  Strum Electric
  STS 26
  STS 33
  Superwave P8
  Swierk
  Synth1
  Syn'X 2
  Synthmaster 2.5
  T-Force Alpha Plus
  T-Synth
  Table Synth
  TAL Bassline
  TAL Elek7ro II
  TAL Noisemaker
  TAL U No 62
  TCM II
  TDM 3
  Tetra
  The Mangle
  The Tiger
  Trance Drive
  TS Substance
  Tyrell N6
  Uniwave
  Vast Vaporizer
  VMP 1
  Wavemapper 2
  Wavestation
  X-WoF 6
  X11
  XAKT
  XILS 4
  Z3ta+2
  Zebra 2

[Raddler1]

I sense a conflict in you. Give in to your fear. FEEL YOUR HATE.

From what I can tell then, what you're actually saying is you don't like old vintage hardware. Fair enough. I'm totally with you on that if that's what you're talking about. That's why I always bring up the Studio Electronics gear in these threads. They're not vintage. You can get them repaired (not that I've ever needed to). They have a full complement of MIDI control and other modern features. They're pretty easy to integrate into any DAW based studio.

I frankly don't care what you do. I have no skin in that fight, but I bet if you took the proceeds of a few of your vintage synth sales and put them to a modern analog, you'd be surprised at how much you enjoyed it.

Look, if I had a billion dollars, I'd buy a big home with a room the size of Carnegie Hall. I'd have a circular setup, kind of like Carl Palmer's drums. I'd hire a team to hook up all my favorite hardware synths and MIDI them to my PC and DAW so that playing them would be no different from playing my ITB synths.

I'd probably get a Schmidt and an Omega 8 as my main synths. I'd then surround myself with all my favorite vintage synths. I'd have a swivel seat for easy access to any of them.

I'd have a PC put together powerful enough to run Diva in triple divine mode if it existed. I'd have every top VST made.

I'd then hire a team to make suggestions of what other stuff to get and put them in charge of getting it.

I'd hire a personal repair man. I'd pay him $250,000 a year just to hang out at my house all day in case something needed fixing. I'd also expect repairs to be made within a week.

But I'm as poor as a church mouse. My income from my music would take me 2 years to be able to afford an Omega 8 and that's if I put every dime of it to saving up for one.

Hardware synths are a dream world for me. They are totally unrealistic given the space available to me and my finances. And since I can't afford to hire a staff and I'd have to hook up everything myself and lug it to get repaired myself, no thanks.

Been there, done that, not doing it again.

Hell, I don't even like going to Sam Ash or similar stores anymore. Before you even get a salesman to wait on you in order to demo something, you'll turn gray and then your hair will fall out. And then they only give you so long to play around with the synth. It's not like downloading a demo and having 30 days to tinker with it. Or other synths that allow you to do everything but just save patches or like Diva that just emits some noise.

At my age, the headaches of hardware or more than I want to deal with.

When I'm loaded rich and can hire people to deal with the crap that I don't like to deal with, maybe then.

Until that day comes, which is highly unlikely, I'm more than content with this collection of soft synths.

• A.N.A.
  ABSynth 5
  ACE
  AM Freehand
  Analog Lab
  Analog Laboratory
  Anti Transpirant 1000
  ARP 2600 V
  ARP 2600 VA
  ART Pyrite
  Avatar ST
  Battery 4
  Bazille
  Blooo
  Blue II
  Brainstormer
  Brzoza
  Charlatan
  CS 80
  Cycle
  Daedalus
  DaHornet
  Deputy
  Dexed
  Discovery Pro
  Diva
  Dominator
  Double Six XXL
  Dune 2
  Eclipsis
  Electra 2
  Element
  FM8
  Fmetal
  Free Alpha
  Funxion
  HaHaHa CS33
  HALion Sonic SE
  Harmor
  IL Autogun
  ImpOSCar 2
  Jupiter 8V
  K700nu
  Kairatune
  KarmaFX Modular
  Kontakt 5
  KX Poly M CSE
  KX Synth X16
  Latte Free
  Lektro
  Lokomotiv
  Loop Mash
  Lucid
  M1
  Massive
  MauSynth
  Mini V
  Modular V
  Mono Fury
  Mono Poly
  Mpowersynth
  Mr Alias Pro
  MS 20
  MUX Modular
  Mystic
  Oberheim SEM
  OBXD
  Olga
  Omnisphere
  OP-X Pro II
  Or2V
  Padshop
  Patchwork Modular System
  PG 8X
  Pianoteq
  Podolski
  Polly 8
  Poly 6
  PPG Wave 2.3
  Prologue
  Prophet V
  Ragnarok
  Rayblaster
  Reaktor 5
  Retrologue
  Revitar
  Rez 3
  Scrooo
  Serenity
  Serum
  Six
  Sonigen Modular
  Spector
  Spectrobits
  String Studio
  Strum Acoustic
  Strum Electric
  STS 26
  STS 33
  Superwave P8
  Swierk
  Synth1
  Syn'X 2
  Synthmaster 2.5
  T-Force Alpha Plus
  T-Synth
  Table Synth
  TAL Bassline
  TAL Elek7ro II
  TAL Noisemaker
  TAL U No 62
  TCM II
  TDM 3
  Tetra
  The Mangle
  The Tiger
  Trance Drive
  TS Substance
  Tyrell N6
  Uniwave
  Vast Vaporizer
  VMP 1
  Wavemapper 2
  Wavestation
  X-WoF 6
  X11
  XAKT
  XILS 4
  Z3ta+2
  Zebra 2

You forgot "this plugin"

[zerocrossing]

I believe that comparing Diva with a VA hardware is more valid than comparing it with MS-20 or other analog synths.

For example, I would like to know how Diva stands against King Korg or Jupiter 50/80? Those can be considered emulations of the real analog just like Diva. So, for me it is more valid to compare an emulation with an emulation.

On the other hand, Diva is a polyphonic synth, so why not compare it to a polyphonic analog? The price of such analog is still high, while I believe a monophonic analog like MS-20 mini or a paraphonic(?) one like in pulse 2, are affordable synths now. So, for me it makes more sense to consider Diva + a fast computer vs a polyphonic analog.

The thing I find it difficult is to find a digital hardware (especially additive) for a reasonable price. The only one I believe it has a very affordable price is Waldorf Blofeld! But this is a wavetable synth. Are there any new affordable hardware which are successors to DX7 or Kawai K5, for example, for sale now? I believe here, the software are hard to beat by the hardware manufacturers.

To sum it up as my opinion:

- Diva is a great synth as an emulation of a polyphonic analog, which is still expensive.
- Even if we compare Diva with a VA like King Korg, we must not forget the negatives and positives of each usages.
- Monophonic analogs are more affordable now than in the past (like ms-20 mini and others). It make sense to have one at least.
- Let's be free with our setup! There is no right or wrong in Arts and Music except when we try to generalize our concepts and be close minded.
- Between Diva and Prophet 12 (if they are the same cost) I would choose Prophet 12 (or any other new analog polyphonic synth).
- I can't afford Prophet 12 (or similar), but I can afford MS-20 mini (or Pulse2) with Diva I don't see a problem in such setup

However, I wish the thread was "Diva vs King Korg". This is really a much reasonable, practical and more useful comparison for people who can afford the two.

I've personally done the Diva vs KingKORG thing... twice. I kept hearing amazing sounding demos of the KingKORG, so I finally bit and got one. I felt it sounded better to me than pretty much any software VA, Diva included. Then, I moved and lost some space so I got rid of the Korg.

It haunted me. I kept thinking about it. I missed it. I looked for a more suitable synth, but everything I looked at had a major flaw. I think the closest thing I came to was a Nord Lead A1, but their stupid ignoring of aftertouch as a modulation source made it a no-go. Even my cheap Nord Lead 2 rack could recieve it and use it.

Anyway, so we could do a Diva KingKORG shoot out, but one thing the KingKORG doesn't really do is model different oscillator shapes from classic synths. It has a bunch of different oscilator types, but they're just variations of a basic waveform, like "detuned saws" or "cross mod saws." What it does do really well is model the filters. However, I think the only ones that cross over from Diva are the 24db Moog ladder, Oberheim SEM and MS-20.

I'll give it a shot with a basic patch or two.

[IncarnateX]

Besides from the usual "my preferences are universal, while yours are exceptions" - fallacy in threads like this, another common mistake is to think that the inspiration that fuels our productions is caused by rational and logical causes like "conveniency" , "best workflow", "redundancy of hardware" or "amount of features". It seems to be the premise of the discussion but none of you really believes in it, do you? You can be musically turned on by so many things that do not fall under the cost-benefit calculations of your left brain half. Dusting off an old synth and make it work again; seeing it feeling it, yeah, maybe even smell the electronics, could get you going though it takes much more effort than just turning on your PC. Then there are all other non-rational reasons; hearing an inspiring piece of music, seeing a film, listen to a story, seing a painting, having a quarrel with your wife or other emotional experiences etc. You can exchange your views with regard to inspiration and thus production, but you cannot compare and compete on any rational and objective scales. It is an illusion.