KVR Audio

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:20 pm

OK, I must say I joined the forum today, and downloaded the interim versions for Windows x32 and x64. I checked in Windows 10. A simple 4-track session opened and played without problems. "HOWEVER, the ASIO support seems to be very problematic. While any other host uses the sound card I have on that computer (Creative X-Fi) with its own ASIo drivers without problems, Mixbus started to play with a "granulated" sound. I had to check the driver and change the clock from 44.1 to 48 kHx 8which is the native one for that card). I repeat - any other host I have there plays with the ASIO driver without problems. At 48 kHz it played without problems. Closed that session - the program quits (???) WHAT?

Launched it again, to load another session. The audio configuration window appeared again (???). WHAT? How many times do I have to set this? Loaded the new session. Nothing plays - yet in the older version it played without problems. After more than one hour messing with the routings, I got it to play - only to find out that the mono files play only in the left channel (???) WHAT? Mono files play only in the left file even with PAN at the center? Really?

I decided to test further to my main machine - Windows 7 - and installed there the x64 version - mainly because I wanted to test more the VST working with what I consider a prime quality sound card - my RME Hammerfall DSP. It opened and again the audio configuration window. Chose my Hammerfall DSP - apparently it was recognized with the latency used without problems. Opened the very same session - 4-track - that i started with in the other machine. Opened WITHOUT ANY FILE (???). WTF? Really guys, I'm no noob, but this makes me feel like I am one. Opening a session created in a previous version should be open and play - plain and simple.

Opened the second session. Again, the audio configuration window. WTF? This is a joke. Configured again, and here we go... NOPE. Another empty session. Really, I'm glad I didn't spend the $40,00 in the upgrade. This is not even a Beta version yet. You need serious Beta testing and debugging in several chapters before considering this a release version.

One last word - I have no clue where my VST plug-ins should be checked, but the fact is that this version didn't ask me where they are nor did it scan anything. The positive side of this is that at least i started right away, without having to pass a painful hour waiting for the scan to finish. The negative side is that, if I had the paid version, I would be spending another couple of hours just trying to configure what should be a standard procedure - look into the registry and scan the folder defined there.

I was going to test this on my Mac, but i think it's useless. This is clearly not ready for the prime time yet. Just for the records, the version checked was mixbus-3.0.1508-w64 and also the x32.

do_androids_dream · Post by **do_androids_dream** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:52 pm

fmr wrote:I was going to test this on my Mac, but i think it's useless. This is clearly not ready for the prime time yet. Just for the records, the version checked was mixbus-3.0.1508-w64 and also the x32.

I should think it will be much more stable on a mac. It seems to be the windows version that has most of the problems. Ardour 4 (which MB3 is based on) also has lots of asio related problems on windows but runs fine on macs.

Aloysius · Post by **Aloysius** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:19 pm

Got yet another 'special offer' to upgrade today. Think I'll pass (again).

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:41 pm

do_androids_dream wrote:
fmr wrote:I was going to test this on my Mac, but i think it's useless. This is clearly not ready for the prime time yet. Just for the records, the version checked was mixbus-3.0.1508-w64 and also the x32.
I should think it will be much more stable on a mac. It seems to be the windows version that has most of the problems. Ardour 4 (which MB3 is based on) also has lots of asio related problems on windows but runs fine on macs.

In the meanwhile I sorted out the "empty session" problem - it happened the audio files got corrupted, yet MB3 didn't display any error message. Restored them from a backup, and sessions load fine now. Anyway, there is no excuse for the ASIO behaviour, no matter if it just Windows or not - it's simply not ready for release, period.

And the setup dialog any time a session loads? Frankly, to me this is an unjustified annoyance. If a user wants to change some settings, he/she knows where to do it. I checked many DAWs, and this is the first one that displays this dialog EVERYTIME.

And playing mono files just on the left channel, in spite of the pan knob position... frankly, I thought I would never see this.

BenLoftis · Post by **BenLoftis** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:17 pm

@fmr:

Mixbus is a very full-featured app. I'm sorry you had some problems at the start, but I encourage you to spend a few hours learning Mixbus before you post your thoughts. I find that any large app ( photo editor, video editor, etc ) requires some time to learn the expected workflows.

Regarding the "left signal only" issue, there are 2 easy fixes. Either (A) use a mono track for mono files (instead of a stereo track) or (B) enable "Preferences->Audio->replicate missing channels"

Best,
-Ben

luxgud · Post by **luxgud** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:20 pm

What's the timestretch/pitch shift quality like in this DAW ?
Is it the ubiquitous Elastique or Harrision's proprietary ?

Thanks

BenLoftis · Post by **BenLoftis** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:39 pm

Timestretch is provided by the Ardour open-source workstation ( specifically it uses the Rubber Band library, some examples here: http://www.breakfastquay.com/rubberband/examples.html )

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:26 pm

OK, I must say I joined the forum today,

At least you can. I can't even join the user forum for a product I own. I'm apparently "a known spammer". As much as I like Harrison the company In general I think I'll just not spend any more money in MixBus.

Your email or IP address matches that of a known spammer and therefore you cannot register here.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:31 pm

BenLoftis wrote:@fmr:

Mixbus is a very full-featured app. I'm sorry you had some problems at the start, but I encourage you to spend a few hours learning Mixbus before you post your thoughts. I find that any large app ( photo editor, video editor, etc ) requires some time to learn the expected workflows.

Regarding the "left signal only" issue, there are 2 easy fixes. Either (A) use a mono track for mono files (instead of a stereo track) or (B) enable "Preferences->Audio->replicate missing channels"

Best,
-Ben

OK, to be fair, the support answers have been spectacular (much more considering I am using a demo version). With all its weirdness and awkwardness (and it's not a matter of learning, it's a matter of Harrison choosing "not so common" ways of working) I found the demo version quite usable so far. I will upgrade after all (main reason was the support I got, which was very fast in answering to my problems, and I think a company who works like this deserves some confidence

).

luxgud · Post by **luxgud** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:38 pm

The timestretching (and pitchshifting) is very good - surprisingly good. I did some comparative tests with Elastique and Copella (Mixcraft) and it was very difficult to honestly state which was which.

As you can't download a demo (Harrison), you can hear the timestretch performance with this demo standalone utility of Rubber Band (it allows export)

http://rubberbandaudio.com/demo.html

(click the right icon at the bottom of the interface to reveal all the algorithms

MarlaPodolski · Post by **MarlaPodolski** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:52 am

fmr wrote:OK, to be fair, the support answers have been spectacular (much more considering I am using a demo version). With all its weirdness and awkwardness (and it's not a matter of learning, it's a matter of Harrison choosing "not so common" ways of working) I found the demo version quite usable so far. I will upgrade after all (main reason was the support I got, which was very fast in answering to my problems, and I think a company who works like this deserves some confidence ).

Others have had different experiences. I would not buy or use MixBuss based on the performance stories and many troubles I have seen and heard of, but one of the engineers where I work did try to make it work smoothly, sought Harrison's help ... all to WORSE than no avail:

A true story: He showed me the full exchange of emails back and forth, and I can vouch that there were no obscenities, cursing or the like. He did criticise the quality and performance of MixBuss in writing to Harrison about his troubles in trying to use it on Windows during v2.x.

What help or solution did he receive? After just a few emails back and forth, the MixBuss rep at Harrison (this Ben? can't recall now) canceled my colleague's $9 or $10 per month guaranteed upgrade plan, no refund or anything -- even did this to him without any advanced warning! Very odd 'HELP', if you ask me. I would warn anyone thinking of getting involved with MixBuss and considering buying this very flawed DAW to stay well away from this company. So, this left him with a v2.x MixBuss and no future to either sell it off or ever upgrade it I do believe. He told me he gave it to a teenage son to play with.

Fine hardware, and our studio has a quarter mil invested in a console, but their software efforts are half baked and questionable. Who in their right mind would build their DAW on an open source DAW that is widely known to only work well on LINUX? Someone at Harrison who came up with this scheme didn't think things through I fear. The whole concept is nuts. Now, you have been warned, so buyer beware.
-Marla

JohnD71651 · Post by **JohnD71651** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:39 pm

I'd also recommend not to buy MB3 at this time. Maybe later during the 3.x cycle, when the problems have been sorted out. I've used it for one project and have never seen so many weird bugs and crashes in a piece of software. I cannot imagine how anyone could use the current version of MB3 (including the latest interim version) in a professional environment.

MB is a good concept but it's just too fragile and performance is also bad. I wouldn't buy the current version again, but perhaps a later version. Who knows.

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:41 pm

MarlaPodolski wrote: Who in their right mind would build their DAW on an open source DAW that is widely known to only work well on LINUX? Someone at Harrison who came up with this scheme didn't think things through I fear. The whole concept is nuts. Now, you have been warned, so buyer beware.
-Marla

No offense but I find that comment really unfair to Harrison. They explained that decision in some detail already and the explanation makes perfect sense to me. To summarize...

They needed a way to inject their proprietary code into an existing code base without all of the legal hassles involved with code sharing. They actually approached Cockos about doing it there with Reaper, but the legal challenges were too formidable, (who owns what, and under what circumstances would a company like Cockos share their proprietary code with a company who will make a directly competing product?) so the best approach - short of writing your own brand new daw from scratch, a multi-year endeavor in the best case - was to piggy back on something that's open source.

Now if anyone has a better solution, aside from just writing a brand new daw from scratch to host their dsp, I haven't heard it yet.

While Ardour is - design wise - a well thought out product, I too find it rather buggy on Windows, but Harrison has to live in a business reality, not in a fantasy world where you can snap your fingers and magically make great new things appear.

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:59 pm

Imho Mixbuss 2 is awesome , and I imagine on Linux MB3 is fine . I would like to see Harrison do a port of the effects maybe in a 3 pack VST bundle , ex. Track bus , Aux Bus , and Main Bus. It would get away from the concept of what Mixbuss is in away but if you had those on all your tracks , buses , and master channel you could get the same vibe or sound , but it would not help you workflow wise like Mixbuss would do .

LawrenceF · Post by **LawrenceF** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:07 pm

I just don't edit or anything else in MixBus. When I use it I use it with fully edited / prepped stems from Studio One and just mix in it, and mostly avoid the arrange screen except for cueing.

I only bought it for the Harrison dsp in the console, and the analog style console workflow, nothing else, not to run Kontakt in it or track bands or do anything else in it. As long as Altiverb works in it, giving me a high quality verb, I'm good. I only ever use the Harrison EQ's and comps when mixing in it.

The only reason to even dive into anything more related to Ardour's workflow when mixing (for me) is with automation. Not a big fan of it tbh, but it works well enough.

If I want to use all my other plugins I just stay in Studio One. Production uses aside, MixBus is a pretty nice mix platform.

I still want a demo before upgrading though.

Harrison Mixbus 3 is coming today!