Synths with the snappiest envelopes

[Lotuzia]

What's an EV?

An envelope

[cytospur]

What's an EV?

An envelope

Phew. Thought I'd missed something there lol. It's possible to modulate ENV segments in DUNE2 as well.

[Lotuzia]

Another possibility to get *max snap* is given by synths who can modulate EV segments, and/or EV output, including self modulations ( Like Xils-lab and some others ) It might not be as visual as MSEGS, but its very efficient, and also can do things that MSEG cant do. Very fast to operate too. Then, for those who like to see, you need your ears, you cant *see* the result.

I like these kind of features that cant be directly seen on the GUI/UI. Oblige people to use their ears, wich is not a bad thing imho.

To me, it doesn't matter if it's visual or not.. Sylenth1 is clearly one of the snappiest synths around with envelope snap similar to that of a Virus, that can be clearly heard in my example above. But I agree that newer synths should show visual representations like Dune 2 or Massive.

Hmmm I'm afraid the methods I describe cant have a visual representation that easily. Especially when modulators like velocity, combined with others are used.

[projectdan]

Now let's figure out a way to lower that to 1 milliseconds without breaking backwards compatibility. I guess that was the reason why I overlooked this issue so far.

Maybe a new dropdown parameter called "Envelope time" would solve the issue so we can add envelope times of different synths. I have taken a lot of measurements from different synths so now is the time to add those to SM

Very good news, look forward to this feature, making the most of what's already in Synthmaster, things like this can make a big difference to how useful a synth is. Thankyou for the updates so far, it is a synth that keeps on giving.

[fluffy_little_something]

With Electra, that got mentioned a couple of times, the good thing is that one can see the waveform in the display and drag it around so that the phase is ideal for snappiness. With Sylenth I have to do that by ear, which also works, though. The retrigger option helps as well, of course

[chk071]

Now let's figure out a way to lower that to 1 milliseconds without breaking backwards compatibility. I guess that was the reason why I overlooked this issue so far.

Maybe a new dropdown parameter called "Envelope time" would solve the issue so we can add envelope times of different synths. I have taken a lot of measurements from different synths so now is the time to add those to SM

Very good news, look forward to this feature, making the most of what's already in Synthmaster, things like this can make a big difference to how useful a synth is. Thankyou for the updates so far, it is a synth that keeps on giving.

Yeah, very cool.

[tristan-]

With Electra, that got mentioned a couple of times, the good thing is that one can see the waveform in the display and drag it around so that the phase is ideal for snappiness. With Sylenth I have to do that by ear, which also works, though. The retrigger option helps as well, of course

Right.
But what you mean by phase is to get a "click" from the beginning of the waveform. That's not the snap. The snap is achieved most of the time via a filter envelope - check out the example I posted above (the snappy sylenth wav file)...

[fluffy_little_something]

Phase also has a big impact on the snappiness when I bypass the filter. Unfortunately, the ideal phase setting for snappiness varies with the octave, but one can compensate with key follow -> phase.

[chk071]

Phase rather gives you "bang" than being snappy IMO. But even with fixed phase, different synths act differently in my experience. E.g. some synths give you a nice click with a sine wave if you use fixed phase, while others just sound lame.

[BlitBit]

Phase also has a big impact on the snappiness when I bypass the filter. Unfortunately, the ideal phase setting for snappiness varies with the octave, but one can compensate with key follow -> phase.

A sine wave with a phase of 90° can also serve as a good test of how "snappy" the envelopes of a synth are.

In theory playing a sine with a phase of 90 degrees without any envelopes applied (e.g. by generating one in code) should give you a click at the start of each note because the waveform will ramp up from 0 to 1 instantly and then start following the curve. However, most synths will multiply the generated signal with an envelope, e.g. an ADSR. If the fastest attack that can be dialed in for the ADSR is rather slow, then the instant jump from 0 to 1 will turn into a ramp and the click will disappear.

So here is a recipe to test the "envelope snappiness" of your favorite synth:

• Set one oscillator to sine and mute all other oscillators. We use a sine because it only contains the fundamental frequency while the click will manifest as higher frequencies. So using a sine helps us hear the click better.
• Set the phase of the sine oscillator to 90 degrees.
• Make sure that the oscillator is not free running, i.e. make sure that each note starts at a phase of 90°.
• Set the attack to the fastest value, i.e. A=0. Set D=0, S=1, R=0.
• Turn off the filter or set it to wide open.
• Turn off all effects especially distortion.

I tested some synths and the ones that produced the click were:

• Spire
• Sylenth1 (demo)
• Zeta+2
• Rapture

To my surprise I was not able to get the click out of Harmor although I would have thought that it would be no problem due to its rather "analytical" engine.

Who wants to describe a test for "warmth"?

[fluffy_little_something]

Far warmth? Well, you use saw on one osc, 24db lopez, filter env amount at 25%, filter decay at 50%, and then you stick a thermometer into the amp and measure the temp Alternatively you can also stick the thermometer into the listener, but it only works with men as women usually don't react to warm saw waves the way men do

[_al_]

tbh i wouldnt say its got no snap, just because you dont hear a click.
i mean that first sample that has a click is what, a millisecond or something? and i reckon theres probably some synths that have the click, but still dont filter down as sharp as other synths.
think you just have to use your ears on this one.

[BlitBit]

tbh i wouldnt say its got no snap, just because you dont hear a click.
i mean that first sample that has a click is what, a millisecond or something? and i reckon theres probably some synths that have the click, but still dont filter down as sharp as other synths.

I did not say that envelopes are not "snappy" if there is no click. It's just that if you hear the click they are very likely in the snappy league.

Another factor that might come into play is how the envelope's knob positions are mapped to time (e.g. linear, logarithmic or exponential). If the mapping provides lots of space in the short durations range you can fine tune better and the envelope will move slower into the "unsnappy" territory.

And as you have also mentioned it's also important that the modulation target can make something out of "snappy" or fast envelopes. If a filter has unfortunate boundary settings a snappy envelope might not be able to provide the desired effect.

think you just have to use your ears on this one.

I think that's always a good rule. If it sounds good it sounds good. And you don't want everything to be snappy anyway.

Last but not least, in the end it should be about the music and a snappy envelope will not automatically turn someone into a good musician.

[_al_]

Last but not least, in the end it should be about the music and a snappy envelope will not automatically turn someone into a good musician.

yep. just means they gotta compress more

[cytospur]

Last but not least, in the end it should be about the music and a snappy envelope will not automatically turn someone into a good musician.

yep. just means they gotta compress more

But then snappy becomes snoopy surely?