Junglejar

[Steven West]

Sober and mellower now. I'll put my 'dirty underwear' back on and keep them to myself.

[Crackbaby]

There's like .. uh .. nothing there?
JungleJar
Independent music .. Opps, i should stayed away from there

When you are not anymore, and perhaps got some , tell us what its all about
Im curious

[griels]

I dunno what they did to J Dub, but the misspelt 'Independant' in the splash page makes me immediately suspicious

[CypherOne]

to be honest J Dub, the fact that you can't actually fit a jungle in a jar should have been a clue...

[experimental.crow]

errmm ...

as one of the 'roster' members , i will endeavor to find out just what is what ...

the site has been slow coming on-line , but i have been using the time to get some things ready ... i certainly have heard no compliants from any fellow members ...

all the other members belong to this board ...
i'm sure they will chime in if they have any complaints ...
i would urge kevin to do the same ...

jdub ...
i would advise that you attempt to clearly state your case , sans invective ...
right now , your opinion is represented by a drunken rant ...
surely , you can do a better job of expressing yourself , and the circumstances ...

[Steven West]

You're right normal, my bad. I was rudely and abruptly backhanded by him. For not 'fitting the mold' as it turns out. Tried to reason with him that I'm not a bad guy, and just want a little help in sales is all. But just got a flat NO, you're gone, toast, arivaderci. I can understand 6 days after listening, or even up to a month of thinking about it. But 5-6 MONTHS? And he had always made me feel like 'family' even when I asked him was I or wasn't I?

Anyhoo, my apologies for the outburst there. Best I can say is 'watch your back with all this', because I got a knife stuck in mine when I was shaking his hand. Maybe I had it coming, but I honestly don't think I did? I got enough communications between us to review to see where I 'went wrong', and best I can see it was all rosy up to a couple of days ago, and BAM!

He's VERY bad at honesty I've learned. And we could've cleaned this up a month or two ago. I'd still be hurt, but atleast appreciate his confession when I ask 'Am I in, or am I out?'. So I'll just leave you with 'Be cautious there' my friend.

[ew]

Awww...I missed JDub's post
Like normal,I'm another of the roster members.I too have been using the delayed start time constructively(working 50+ hours at the job a week,meeting other obligations AND finishing a CD project takes some juggling ).
I think most of you will be blown away with the quality of the music there when it gets rolling(with the exception of my stuff of course-I think I'm just there to make everybody else look good )
ew

[experimental.crow]

well ..

jdub ...
i see you've edited the thread title , and your original post ...
cheers for that ...
i'd estimate at least 200 people read it before you performed your edit ...

when i suggested you attempt to state your case , sans invective , i did so in
hopes you would choose to respond in a straight forward manner as to the circumstances involved ...
your use of terms such as ' rudely and abruptly backhanded by him ' , and ' watch your back with all this', because I got a knife stuck in mine when I was shaking his hand ' don't fall into my definition of ' sans invective ' , but that's just my opinion ...
you are certainly entitled to speak as you see fit ...

junglejar is a work in process ...
the site ( will ) exist for purposes of promotion only ...
no one has any expectations , other than the fact that we have agreed to work together ...
kevin chose a few people to start the site with , based upon an open solicitation , conducted here on this board ... i consider myself to be fortunate to have been chosen ...
i could have just as easily been not chosen ...
IMO , some very talented people were not chosen ...

kevins' choices reflect a certain style , and approach ...
they will most certainly not be everyones 'cuppa' ...
the fact that he decided your work did not fit this approach is no reflection
on you as a person , nor your talents as a musician ...

i hope , in somber reflection , you will consider your words with care ...
members such as 'ew' and 'JackR' are respected , and valuble , members of this community ...
'cloudspine' posts here somewhat infrequently ... i have respect for his work ...

[jack [psychicmodulation]]

J Dub,
I read your post late last night,
and decided to wait till you sobered up to see what this was all about...
I agree that the rant was uncalled for, but I can also understand why you would be angry.
I think Kevin might have seen your music as more 'pop' oriented, and that it didnt relate to the other music, not to say that it's bad music.

I totaly respect you and your music, especially after hearing 'Demon Gap' earlier this year.
(when's the CD coming out anyway, wasnt it in June?
You definatly have a sale here, keep us informed)

Anyway, I've put alot of trust in Junglejar,
and dont see Kevin as a bad guy, and I dont think he meant anything personal against you, but only you and him know exacly what went on...

[Crackbaby]

Uh.. ok, lets see if i get this now

JungleJar is a new website (not even born yet?) that some of you works together with. Kevin (the boss?) wanted the music on the promotionsite(?) to be in a similar style. JDub has been working on this site/idea for a couple of months, and now he got suddenly kicked out of the colaboration, because of his music is a little bit too far away from this style.

Am i close?

[Steven West]

Pretty much so Crackbaby. Soon as Kevin mentioned JungleJar (back in December?) many people here gave him a hard time. I too joked with him to see how serious he was. And he was 'ready, willing, and able' so to speak to make it fly right. So in Jan/Feb he checked out my stuff at Soundclick and/or I sent him a fistful of my Electricky CD's. He informed me at that point that he listened to them, and really liked them. Then he did his 'contest' here to select the other roster members, and said I was secure because I was the first to show genuine interest and all. I didn't badger him, and understood these things take time. Maybe once a month or so I'd check in just to see how things are going with him? He'd promptly replied and said 'things are getting there, should be soon.'
But then he started mentioning 'The 4 members will do this/get this/plan this, etc.' And that's where I started questioning him 'Am I not the 5th?'. He apologised, and said you guys were all so close by and I wasn't geographically - but no worries, I am IN by all means. He asked me what I thought of 'sub labels', and I said fine - but I'd rather just concentrate on getting a couple of my titles sold first, and then we'll see? It started getting 'funny' when he set up a discussion board for you guys, but wanted to deal with me 'personally'. I thought that was strange, but pretty convienient for myself as well. Then he recently invited my onto the forum, rolled out the 'red carpet' to welcome me aboard (which was nice), slid in my post about 'pricing' and tried to be motivational and optimistic for all involved - making jokes about Wall Street and Jerry McQuire along the way.

And the next day Kevin informs me that he just listened to my CD front to back 'for the first time' and thought I was 'more commercial' than ambient/experimental. He thought he could squeeze me in on a 'sub label', but that isn't going to be feasible with JungleJar as it turns out. So better luck elsewhere. I wrote back almost pleading for him to reconsider - I might make little money for him, or alot. But what's his overhead for me anyways? And that JungleJar was going to be 'diverse' in all facets of electronic music and all? I'm not expecting alot from him, if 2 CDs sell is just as good as 200 or 2000. I'm on his side, and want him to make the money to further JungleJar and ALL you guys and himself!

All I get back was a sloppy written e-mail saying to the effect 'Decisions final, it's best this way, you'd stick out like a SAW thumb at JungleJar. Goodbye.'

So as you can see, I think anyone would violently EXPLODE after all that. And my apologies for having done so here. Like I said, if he informed me of this back in February or March - April even, that he wants JungleJar to go in a limited direction and that my music just doesn't fit - I'd understand. Sure I might be angry with Kevin and his short sightedness, but respect his decision - and certainly wouldn't pull a drunken rant here for all to see.

If Kevin could've offered me more constructive criticism on my departure - maybe it'd be easier to swallow? I think I'd rather hear "You suck and here's why" as opposed to "more commercial and you'd stick out"? I never thought I'd be insulted by praise? (If that's what one could call it? )

So there's all my underwear out on the line here for all to see. Maybe not so much as a flame to Kevin per say, but as a learning tool for other new label starters and hopeful artists that may get picked up by them. This is NOT the way to do business - inside and/or outside! Speedier honesty and tact is essential for ALL involved. Or thus - you might wind up with a drunken rant and full disclosure at KVR or another site yourselves! (By me, or someone even MORE commercial than me! )

Anyhoo - I wish all the other JungleJar members the best of luck there, and hope Kevin treats you all better than he had done me. I think you're all great as well, and was really looking foward to being a part of the team. 'On the sidelines, on the bench, under the bleachers.' I was just happy to 'be there'. And now I'm not.

[bluedad]

jdub, that sucks. I can understand your original rant now..I'd have gone out and gotten wasted too.

[bluedad]

however, there are two sides to every story, so it'd be interesting to hear kevins'. not that I have anything to do with it, just more exciting reading at kvr

[clueless]

that does, indeed, suck. I'd be interested to hear the other party's point of view though.

[edit] but hey! "it's a shit business".

[funked]

J dub,

You sent me 5 CD's serveral months after I setup junglejar where I was offering to promote independant music. You where the one and only person to send me a CD. Becouse you had taken the time and effort to send me your music I felt that I owed you a place at junglejar.

Since then I have looked at differant options for splitting junglejar into differant styles but I have come to the conclusion that this would not be possible at this time.

After listening to all the music that will be on the site back to back and getting a secound opinion from good friend of mine I decided that it would not be in your's or the other artists interests to promote you together.

I dont like having to make these descions. I realise that it would have been easier to take a few months ago. I promoise you I had every intension to promote you until I realised that it isnt possible to split the site up.

I felt you didnt understand my situation when you replyed to my e-mail. I had to make my position clear in my reply. In my reply I said 'you would stick out like a saw thumb'. Meaning that your music is very differant from the rest of the music at the site and that visitors to the site would notice this.

As I've said I'm sorry if I have offended you. This does not in anyway reflect on the quality of your music only that it is differant from what we have at junglejar.

Kevin
Junglejar.com